Justin Verlander 2012

[Edgartohof]

Just thought I should add some more early season speclation to the mix and pose a question.

Will Verlander be as effective in 2012 as he was in his MVP/Cy Young winning 2011 season? And if so, will he win the MVP again?


Obviously voters are willing to hand the MVP over to a pitcher, especially when there is no clear cut hitter who should win. But would they give it to a pitcher 2 years running? Especially the same pitcher?

Verlander was quite impressive last year with a league leading 24 wins, 2.40 ERA and 250+ IP with a sub-1.000 WHIP.

And he is off to a good start so far this season, though it is only 2 starts in for him. He as of this posting has yet to give up a run and is just being his usual dominant self.

[dominik]

no MVP again but he will be dominant again.

I wonder why he didn't have a monster season before? that guy clearly has the best stuff in all majors. can dial it up to 100 and has a wicked curve too.

[catbox_9]

MVP seems rather unlikely. He's pitching today and has 7 scoreless innings so far.

[m8644]

MVP seems rather unlikely. He's pitching today and has 7 scoreless innings so far.

not anymore. Rays scored 4 in the 9th, all charged to verlander.

[RaysFan_98]

Rays touched him for 4 today.

[dominik]

I don't really understand why managers still let pitchers pitch complete games if nothing is on the line.

yeah 9 out of 10 times verlander wins this but even if he does this takes a lot of gas out of him needed for the postseason. I hate this old school managers who let their ace throw 110 pitches (not in this game but often happens) in such games just because it is old school.

verlander had only throw 81 pitches after 8. considering that the tigers play in a really ppor division and are very likely to win by 10+ give verlander some short nights. nobody cares if they win 98 or 103. but what does matter is having a fresh pitcher in the postseason. same happens with halladay in philly. those guys are abused.

I have no problem with a manager having his ace throwing 150 pitches in game 7 of the world series. but I see no reason to not lift a starter after 7 when you are up with 4 runs. really no need to push them to the limit.

[RaysFan_98]

I don't really understand why managers still let pitchers pitch complete games if nothing is on the line.

yeah 9 out of 10 times verlander wins this but even if he does this takes a lot of gas out of him needed for the postseason. I hate this old school managers who let their ace throw 110 pitches (not in this game but often happens) in such games just because it is old school.

verlander had only throw 81 pitches after 8. considering that the tigers play in a really ppor division and are very likely to win by 10+ give verlander some short nights. nobody cares if they win 98 or 103. but what does matter is having a fresh pitcher in the postseason. same happens with halladay in philly. those guys are abused.

I have no problem with a manager having his ace throwing 150 pitches in game 7 of the world series. but I see no reason to not lift a starter after 7 when you are up with 4 runs. really no need to push them to the limit.

Did you watch the game? He was touching 97-100MPH on his FB in the 9th.

[dominik]

Did you watch the game? He was touching 97-100MPH on his FB in the 9th.

yeah. he did not lose this one because of fatique. but in the post season those extra innings can hurt you. no need to let a pitcher pitch 250 innings when you can win the division with 220 innings out of him.

[Rich the Giants fan]

Oh yeah, that one extra inning is going to kill him, just like it used to do with all those pitchers who used to throw 300+ innings a year.

(sarcasm)

[dominik]

Oh yeah, that one extra inning is going to kill him, just like it used to do with all those pitchers who used to throw 300+ innings a year.

(sarcasm)

don't you think that 250 innings in one year is too much in these days? that might have worked in the 60s but let's not forget this is a much higher scoring era= more batters faced per inning and probably also more pitches per batter (because of the smaller strikezone and thus more patient hitters). also the postseason is longer today so you need too save more bullets for that too.

I think 220 innings is plenty enough in these days. I wouldn't let my ace throw much more if I didn't need to. Why should I? more innings don't make the arm any better.

[Rich the Giants fan]

don't you think that 250 innings in one year is too much in these days? that might have worked in the 60s but let's not forget this is a much higher scoring era= more batters faced per inning and probably also more pitches per batter (because of the smaller strikezone and thus more patient hitters). also the postseason is longer today so you need too save more bullets for that too.

I think 220 innings is plenty enough in these days. I wouldn't let my ace throw much more if I didn't need to. Why should I? more innings don't make the arm any better.

Only because they haven't been conditioned to throw that many innings. I personally think part of the reason pitchers get injured nowadays is because they don't throw enough, which is due to the over-reaction by owners who don't want to pay pitcher so many millions a year only to see them get hurt. Innings have gone down because pitchers are babied now. Pitchers could pitch as many innings as they used to if they were conditioned to but the combination of the owners fear of injuries and the increased useage and specialization of the bullpen over the past 3-4 decades means that we'll never see pitchers used that way again.

[GiambiJuice]

Verlander was excellent in 2011, but the season is already becoming one of the most overrated ever. Of course this has everything to do with him inexplicably winning the MVP award last season, but if put into perspective, it was not an 'all time great' season by any stretch of the imagination.

Just looking back a few years, I'm not convinced Verlander's 2011 was better than

Greinke's 2009
Halladay or Kershaw's 2011 plus some other Halladay seasons
Several Randy Johnson and Pedro Martinez seasons in the early part of the decade
A few Johan Santana seasons
Cliff Lee's 2008
etc....

And yet none of these seasons came particularly close to winning the MVP award.

[Captain Cold Nose]

Verlander was excellent in 2011, but the season is already becoming one of the most overrated ever. Of course this has everything to do with him inexplicably winning the MVP award last season, but if put into perspective, it was not an 'all time great' season by any stretch of the imagination.

Just looking back a few years, I'm not convinced Verlander's 2011 was better than

Greinke's 2009
Halladay or Kershaw's 2011 plus some other Halladay seasons
Several Randy Johnson and Pedro Martinez seasons in the early part of the decade
A few Johan Santana seasons
Cliff Lee's 2008
etc....

And yet none of these seasons came particularly close to winning the MVP award.

Stronger competition for the award those years?

[bluesky5]

Only because they haven't been conditioned to throw that many innings. I personally think part of the reason pitchers get injured nowadays is because they don't throw enough, which is due to the over-reaction by owners who don't want to pay pitcher so many millions a year only to see them get hurt. Innings have gone down because pitchers are babied now. Pitchers could pitch as many innings as they used to if they were conditioned to but the combination of the owners fear of injuries and the increased useage and specialization of the bullpen over the past 3-4 decades means that we'll never see pitchers used that way again.

Creating the closer. One of the most, if not the most overrated position in sports and overpaid.

[GiambiJuice]

Stronger competition for the award those years?

Exactly.

....