Hanley Ramirez: will he ever return to greatness?

[3and2Fastball]

2007-2009 Hanley Ramirez turned in 3 of the best seasons in a row by a SS not named Honus Wagner in MLB history. And 2010 was a fairly solid year, too, not in comparison to 2007-2009 but still a good solid .300/.378 with a 126 OPS+

Then 2011 happened and I know he was battling injuries. So far this year he hasn't hit like the old Hanley either.

This was a player who was getting praised by the likes of Hank Aaron and Ernie Banks as being truly great. Banks said "he's better than me..."

It is hard to believe that his greatness is done at the age of 28. Is this one of those cases where he is really 31 or even 32? I kinda doubt it. Just wondering what those of you who are familiar with the Marlins and Hanley think. Will he turn it around?

[White Knight]

2007-2009 Hanley Ramirez turned in 3 of the best seasons in a row by a SS not named Honus Wagner in MLB history.

It's not often that I defend him, but did you forget about Alex Rodriguez's 2001-2003? He was clearly better.

[redban]

2007-2009 Hanley Ramirez turned in 3 of the best seasons in a row by a SS not named Honus Wagner in MLB history.

Is this serious? I can't tell.. Jeter, Ripken, Rodriguez, Garciaparra, Larkin, and even Tejada all had better 3-year stretches in recent memory.

As for Hanley, it's possible that he's not going to be the same ever again, despite his age.

Happens quite often in MLB history. Guys come up, get hot starts, people compare them to HOFers, and then the player disappears.

As a Met fan, one name that comes to mind is Edgardo Alfonzo. 1999 and 2000, he had monstrous, MVP-quality seasons at ages 25 and 26. He looked destined for Cooperstown.

Then Alfonzo just stopped.

Injuries came, his production decreased, Mets traded him to SF, and I haven't heard from him again.

[GiambiJuice]

Is this serious? I can't tell.. Jeter, Ripken, Rodriguez, Garciaparra, Larkin, and even Tejada all had better 3-year stretches in recent memory.

As for Hanley, it's possible that he's not going to be the same ever again, despite his age.

Happens quite often in MLB history. Guys come up, get hot starts, people compare them to HOFers, and then the player disappears.

As a Met fan, one name that comes to mind is Edgardo Alfonzo. 1999 and 2000, he had monstrous, MVP-quality seasons at ages 25 and 26. He looked destined for Cooperstown.

Then Alfonzo just stopped.

Injuries came, his production decreased, Mets traded him to SF, and I haven't heard from him again.

Carlos Baerga comes to mind too, though he was of course a second baseman.

[chicagowhitesox1173]

Didn't Arky Vaughan put up better numbers too.

[BSmile]

Didn't Arky Vaughan put up better numbers too.

Yeah, if we're looking at 3 great seasons in a row...his 1934-36 was off-the-hook!
See here: http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...tting_standard
.350 BA - .457 OBP, not too shabby.

[Rich the Giants fan]

Is this serious? I can't tell.. Jeter, Ripken, Rodriguez, Garciaparra, Larkin, and even Tejada all had better 3-year stretches in recent memory.

As for Hanley, it's possible that he's not going to be the same ever again, despite his age.

Happens quite often in MLB history. Guys come up, get hot starts, people compare them to HOFers, and then the player disappears.

As a Met fan, one name that comes to mind is Edgardo Alfonzo. 1999 and 2000, he had monstrous, MVP-quality seasons at ages 25 and 26. He looked destined for Cooperstown.

Then Alfonzo just stopped.

Injuries came, his production decreased, Mets traded him to SF, and I haven't heard from him again.

SF Signed him as a free agent. And I'd ask you kindly never to mention him again.

[3and2Fastball]

Thanks for the replies... I said 3 of the best seasons in a row by a SS... not the 3 best. 3 seasons of OPS+ of 145, 143, 148 goes beyond anything Jeter did at least in terms of OPS+, Jeter only had one season with an OPS+ over 140 and he certainly never came close to stealing 50 bases in 2 straight seasons....

Larkin had 2 seasons of 140+ OPS+ in his career but they were in 1991 & 1996. A-Rod, sure, he exceeded Hanley's output. Ernie Banks did, too, in 4 straight years from 1957-1960. Cal Ripken Jr, as great as he was, never had 3 straight seasons of 140+ OPS+ and only exceed 140 in OPS+ 4 times in his long and illustrious career

Banks, A-Rod & Ripken of course never had 2 straight 50 stolen base seasons while putting up 140+ OPS+ rates and either has Garciaparra (whose 1998-2000 were 3 seasons better than Hanley's 2007-2009 but then never approached that output again in his career.) Tejada never had a 140+ OPS+ season in his 15 year career.

Anyways, it was one of the best 3 year peaks by any SS since Wagner, and I'm wondering if Hanley can get back to that level of output....

[BondsOverBabe]

Is this serious? I can't tell.. Jeter, Ripken, Rodriguez, Garciaparra, Larkin, and even Tejada all had better 3-year stretches in recent memory.

lol no they didn't, not even close

[chicagowhitesox1173]

lol no they didn't, not even close

Are you really being serious here? I'm not saying those guys all have had better 3 year periods but it's far from being not close.

[BondsOverBabe]

Are you really being serious here? I'm not saying those guys all have had better 3 year periods but it's far from being not close.

Which 3 year period of Jeter, Tejada or Larkin is close to Hanley offensively?

[redban]

Hanley Ramirez 2007-2009: 17.8 WAR

Derek Jeter 1997-1999: 19.9 WAR

Barry Larkin 1994-1996: 16.4 (2 of the 3 seasons were cut short by the strike)

Miguel Tejada 2003 - 2005: 17.1


Also:

Ozzie Smith 1987-1989: 19.6 WAR

Robin Yount 1982-1984: 23.1 WAR

Lou Boudreau 1942-1944: 18.9 WAR

Luke Appling 1935-1947: 19.2 WAR

[BondsOverBabe]

Hanley Ramirez 2007-2009: 17.8 WAR

Derek Jeter 1997-1999: 19.9 WAR

Barry Larkin 1994-1996: 16.4 (2 of the 3 seasons were cut short by the strike)

Miguel Tejada 2003 - 2005: 17.1

Jeter 97-99 per season
BA .321
OBP .397
SLG .478

Tejada 03-05
BA .298
OBP .348
SLG .507

Larkin 94-97
BA .299
OBP .392
SLG .497

Hanley 07-09
BA .325
OBP .398
SLG .549

Not close. Especially when you consider Tejada and Jeter were AL players during the steroid era way inflating their stats and Jeter was in LOADED lineups.

[willshad]

Hanley will probbaly end up being another Nomar Garciaparra. Nomar peaked in his early to mid 20s, and was even better than Hanley for several seasons. he did have a few good years after that, but he DID peak young, so there is precedence for this type of decline.

[PVNICK]

Assuming the thread hasn't been changed to name the three best SS seasons in a row by guys not named ARod, Wagner or Banks, I wonder how much the injury has affected him. Also total speculation but was there any major difference in his BABIP between his big seasons and now. In general I am with the Nomar, Bearga, Alfonzo crew. I also have yet to hear anything positive about his work ethic. But the only time you haear about that as a non-follower of the team is when the guy gets called out for something.