Derek Jeter

[Richard]

Greatest shortstop in modern MLB history? I never watched Honus Wagner or Ernie Banks

He still plays at a very high level and doesn't seem to be regressing.
He has won several gold gloves. Ripken had more power. Jeter has more stolen bases, a better on base%, better avg. and will have more hits

hits 3,184 and climbing
doubles 504
homers 247
rbi 1221
sb 345
obp .392
avg. .313

[Brooklyn]

he's not the offensive or defensive player that Ripken was.

Yount was also a better player. Larkin compares well too

[redban]

Cal Ripken Jr.

- Better defense by a lot.
- 2 MVPS vs None*
- Higher WAR - 90.9 vs 67.7

*(Although Jeter should've won in 99' and 06')

You mention that Jeter has a higher BA and OBP - well, those are consequences for playing on some stacked Yankee teams during a big offensive era.

Ripken should also get points for being the first of his kind. Before him, you never saw a shortstop who was 6'4 and could hit 20-30 HR a season. He revolutionized the position.

[GiambiJuice]

For "modern" shortstops, I rank only Ripken and A-Rod ahead of Jeter. Though I could possibly be swayed into believing that Robin Yount is ahead of him too. At the moment, I'd rank Jeter ahead of Yount, though.

Ozzie Smith is in the conversation too.

[redban]

I believe Yount moved away from SS at age 29 though.

The HOF lists him as a SS, but he played 1/2 of his career in the OF.

[GiambiJuice]

I believe Yount moved away from SS at age 29 though.

The HOF lists him as a SS, but he played 1/2 of his career in the OF.

You're right and that's the main reason I give Jeter an edge (no pun intended) over the two-time MVP.

[Brooklyn]

*(Although Jeter should've won in 99' and 06')
.

They got the wrong Twin in 2006. Mauer should have one. I remember arguing on this board at the time Mauer vs. Jeter. Mauer had a higher BA, OBP, Slugging, OPS, OPS+ all while playing a tougher position and playing it better. Jeter had a great year, but I don't see how he could be ranked ahead of Mauer.

1999 he had a better argument but I personally would have given it to Pedro

[Richard]

If Jeter plays at high level for two more years, he could easily get 300 more hits. 3,500 hits while playing shortstop.

[3and2Fastball]

I don't think Jeter is anywhere close to Honus Wagner. Wagner was one of the top 2 hitters in MLB throughout his career and the best or one of the best fielders. Jeter doesn't dominate MLB like that or even close to that.

To put it into modern terms: Honus Wagner was somewhat like Albert Pujols' hitting ability (Wagner played in the dead ball era so not a lot of HR's, but he still dominated in hitting and slugging % like Pujols) combined with Michael Bourne's base-stealing combined with Ozzie Smith's glove.

I go back and forth on Honus Wagner vs Willie Wells (the Negro Leagues great) as the greatest SS in history, last week I was thinking Wells, this week I'm thinking Wagner...)

Jeter is definitely great and I'm a big fan of his. It is tough, though, to illustrate his greatness in stats....I could see the argument for Jeter as the #3 SS of all-time, certainly top 5... but #1? No chance

[redban]

Yeah, Wagner is #1 all-time.

But the OP says modern MLB history, and that takes Wagner away. It is difficult and perhaps unfair to compare Jeter with a 1890-1920 player.

In modern history, I can only see Ripken and Alex Rodriguez over Jeter.

Garciaparra declined too quick; Larkin is a notch below; and Banks and Yount played many games outside SS.

Alex Rodriguez also has the PEDS connection, which may drop him down. So that leaves just Ripken.

[Rich the Giants fan]

Jeter is a HOFer and a very good hitting shortstop, but his defense brings him way down.

[m8644]

Jeter is a HOFer and a very good hitting shortstop, but his defense brings him way down.

basically this to a tee.


Fans who bring up the gold gloves really need to stop

[dl4060]

Greatest shortstop in modern MLB history? I never watched Honus Wagner or Ernie Banks

He has won several gold gloves.

Please don't mention those gold gloves. He is a bad defensive SS. The remarkable thing, is that he has been able to stay at short. He has never been good with the glove.

He is an easy first ballot HOF. Arod is miles above him, offensively and defensively. Nomar was better until his body gave out.

Jeter was great, and richly deserves the plaque he will get.

[quagmire]

Please don't mention those gold gloves. He is a bad defensive SS. The remarkable thing, is that he has been able to stay at short. He has never been good with the glove.

He has bad range, but at least when he gets to a ball, he fields it and the throw is on target most of the time and if it is in time, it is an out. I think that is why people regard him as a good SS. Not to mention his trademarked leaping throw.

[Rich the Giants fan]

Jeter's +/-, UZR since 2003

2003: -14, -6.0
2004: -16, -0.7
2005: -34, -13.4
2006: -22, -7.7
2007: -34, -17.9
2008: -11, -0.4
2009: +6, 8.0
2010: -11, -5.4
2011: -17, -8.8
2012: -15, -20.4 (so far)

I find it interesting how he took offense to the criticism back in the winter of '08, put some effort in for a year, then regressed again. Regardless, whether he's won a few GG or not, he's NOT a good defensive shortstop, never has been, and never will be.