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  • Who are the best players in baseball?

    I apologise if a similar thread already exists, but I couldn't see one, and I was wondering who you guys thought were the best players in baseball, heading into the second half of the season. I have it like this....


    Position players
    1. Joey Votto........A truly absurd OBP% and the highest OPS+ in baseball.
    2. Andrew McCutchen........Perhaps the best all round player in the game today.
    3. Josh Hamilton........He's cooled off some but his 27 homers cannot be ignored.
    4. David Wright........Pablo Sandoval started over him in the All Star game? Really?!
    5. Ryan Braun........Quietly putting up the same numbers as last year.
    6. Mike Trout........Right now the Trout and Harper comparisons seem a little silly.
    7. Carlos Ruiz........Unlikely to keep up his production into the 2nd half of the season. Still, he's been the one bright spot for the Phillies so far.
    8/9. Carlos Beltran & Matt Holliday........Possibly the two most underrated players in the majors last year. They have both been even better this year.
    10. Robinson Cano........The numbers he's put up this year are the numbers he should have been putting up for the last 5 years.

    Honourable mentions to

    Mark Trumbo. 22 homers and a sluuging percentage over .600. Too many DH appearances, though.

    and Austin Jackson. He's been outstanding in center field all year (ZERO errors so far) but his abdomen injury at the end of May caused him to miss just a few too many games.


    Pitchers
    1. Stephen Strasburg........His strikeout per 9 innings ratio of 11.64 is the highest in baseball.
    2. R.A Dickey........He throws his knuckleball 86.2% of the time.
    3. Justin Verlander........The guy is a machine - He's already thrown 5 complete games (1 more than the whole of last year!).
    4. Zach Greinke........He doesn't throw walks. He doesn't allow home runs. He strikes out a tonne of batters. What more can we ask? Arguably baseball's best all round pitcher.
    5. Felix Hernandez........Another consistent season from Mr Consistency.
    6. Matt Cain........He's gone further and further away from his fastball and more and more towards his slider over the last couple years. It seems to be paying off.
    7. Clayton Kershaw........Every meaninful stat has declined from last year. The fact that he's still EASILY a top 10 pitcher is a testament to his talent.
    8. Chris Sale........The 4th lowest whip and the 3rd lowest ERA in the majors. Not bad for a converted reliever.
    9. CC Sabathia........His velocity has declined but he's getting by with a truly disgusting slider.
    10. Cole Hamels........His HR/9 ratio is a little high but he's making up for it with a great WHIP.

    Honourable mentions to

    Jared Weaver. It was hard to leave him out but he hasn't been as dominant as his ERA suggests - His SIERA and K/9 ratio isn't on par with anyone inside the top 10. He also hasn't pitched enough innings (Just 96, compared to Verlander's 132, for example)

    and James McDonald. He's giving up the least hits per 9 innings in the national league.



    What do you guys reckon? Have I overrated or underrated anyone?
    Last edited by oolalaa; 07-12-2012, 02:21 PM.

  • #2
    Uhhhhhhh David Price? Longo? Josh Johnson? Baltistia? You seem to have left some fo the best out.....
    All it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing. -Unknown

    A good head and a good heart are always a formidable combination. -Nelson Mandela

    Comment


    • #3
      David Price was close but he has struggled with his command a lot more than than the guys I have in the top 10.

      Evan Longoria? He tore his hamstring! He's only played 23 games.

      Josh Johnson had a shocking start and his numbers havn't fully recovered yet.

      Bautista? He's been a one trick pony. His OBP% and SLG% have plummeted from last season. He's not exactly a gold glove outfielder, either.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by oolalaa View Post
        David Price was close but he has struggled with his command a lot more than than the guys I have in the top 10.

        Evan Longoria? He tore his hamstring! He's only played 23 games.

        Josh Johnson had a shocking start and his numbers havn't fully recovered yet.

        Bautista? He's been a one trick pony. His OBP% and SLG% have plummeted from last season. He's not exactly a gold glove outfielder, either.
        Price has sturggeled with command? Ummmm He has wayyyyyyy better numbers then CC.... he is also 11-4 with a ERA under three unlike CC, CC has been getting hammered on this year.
        All it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing. -Unknown

        A good head and a good heart are always a formidable combination. -Nelson Mandela

        Comment


        • #5
          You have Cano ranked way too low IMHO.
          My top 10 players:

          1. Babe Ruth
          2. Barry Bonds
          3. Ty Cobb
          4. Ted Williams
          5. Willie Mays
          6. Alex Rodriguez
          7. Hank Aaron
          8. Honus Wagner
          9. Lou Gehrig
          10. Mickey Mantle

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by RaysFan_98 View Post
            Price has sturggeled with command? Ummmm He has wayyyyyyy better numbers then CC.... he is also 11-4 with a ERA under three unlike CC, CC has been getting hammered on this year.
            Way better numbers than Sabathia?


            FIP? Price 3.42, Sabathia 3.21.

            xFIP? Price 3.28, Sabathia 3.25.

            SIERA? Price 3.40, Sabathia 3.33.

            BB/9? Price 2.98, Sabathia 2.44.

            K/9? Price 8.46, Sabathia 8.43.

            HR/9? Price 0.81, Sabathia 0.84.


            Wins and losses are essentially MEANINGLESS. Surely you know that?

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by oolalaa View Post
              Way better numbers than Sabathia?


              FIP? Price 3.42, Sabathia 3.21.

              xFIP? Price 3.28, Sabathia 3.25.

              SIERA? Price 3.40, Sabathia 3.33.

              BB/9? Price 2.98, Sabathia 2.44.

              K/9? Price 8.46, Sabathia 8.43.

              HR/9? Price 0.81, Sabathia 0.84.


              Wins and losses are essentially MEANINGLESS. Surely you know that?
              And ERA? You conveniently leave that out.
              Price's
              W L ERA G GS CG SHO SV SVO IP H R ER HR HB BB IBB SO AVG WHIP GO/AO
              11 4 2.82 17 17 1 1 0 0 111.2 97 37 35 10 3 37 2 105 .237 1.20 1.52

              CC's

              WL ERA G GS CG SHO SV SVO IP H R ER HR HB BB IBB SO AVG WHIP GO/AO
              9 3 3.45 15 15 1 0 0 0 107.0 107 50 41 10 3 29 2 105 .257 1.27 1.51

              Please keep trying to tell me how CC's numbers are better though.
              Last edited by RaysFan_98; 07-12-2012, 02:56 PM.
              All it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing. -Unknown

              A good head and a good heart are always a formidable combination. -Nelson Mandela

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by GiambiJuice View Post
                You have Cano ranked way too low IMHO.
                I was thinking I had him a little too high

                Cano is frustratingly laxidasical to me. He has so much natural talent, I often feel his career has been a disappointment so far. He's "only" at 10 for a couple of reasons....

                1. Yes, he's hit 20 homers, but if they move right field in any further in Yankee Stadium, then Nick Swisher will become a permanent DH. Cano, being a lefty with good/very good but not great power, is perfectly suited to exploit it. Only 7 of his HRs have come away from home.

                2. He doesn't get on base as much as I would like. A .374 OBP% is nothing to scoff at but it pales in comparison to the top 7 on my list (With the exception of Hamilton).

                3. His "clutch" stats, particuarly his RISP numbers, leave a lot to be desired. This wouldn't ordinarily be that big a deal but, as we all know, he bats 4th for the Yankees!! They were struggling to capitalise on scoring opportunites early in the year and Cano was a big part of the reason.


                Where would you rank him?
                Last edited by oolalaa; 07-12-2012, 03:08 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by RaysFan_98 View Post
                  And ERA? You conveniently leave that out.
                  Price's
                  W L ERA G GS CG SHO SV SVO IP H R ER HR HB BB IBB SO AVG WHIP GO/AO
                  11 4 2.82 17 17 1 1 0 0 111.2 97 37 35 10 3 37 2 105 .237 1.20 1.52

                  CC's

                  WL ERA G GS CG SHO SV SVO IP H R ER HR HB BB IBB SO AVG WHIP GO/AO
                  9 3 3.45 15 15 1 0 0 0 107.0 107 50 41 10 3 29 2 105 .257 1.27 1.51

                  Please keep trying to tell me how CC's numbers are better though.
                  FIP, xFIP and SIERA are all better versions of ERA. They tak into account circumstances beyond the pitchers control, such as fielding and the park they pitch in.


                  I'm guessing you are a big fan of RBIs, too?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by oolalaa View Post
                    FIP, xFIP and SIERA are all better versions of ERA. They tak into account circumstances beyond the pitchers control, such as fielding and the park they pitch in.


                    I'm guessing you are a big fan of RBIs, too?
                    your ignoring stats only to use other stats this is funny as hell. You seem to have blinders on.....
                    All it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing. -Unknown

                    A good head and a good heart are always a formidable combination. -Nelson Mandela

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by RaysFan_98 View Post
                      your ignoring stats only to use other stats this is funny as hell. You seem to have blinders on.....
                      I'm gunna give you a break, considering you're only 14 years old (I'm going by the 98 in your username). I know ESPN always shows a pitchers ERA and W/L next to their name before they start but that doesn't mean they are worthwile stats.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by oolalaa View Post
                        I was thinking I had him a little too high

                        Cano is frustratingly laxidasical to me. He has so much natural talent, I often feel his career has been a disappointment so far. He's "only" at 10 for a couple of reasons....

                        1. Yes, he's hit 20 homers, but if they move right field in any further in Yankee Stadium, then Nick Swisher will become a permanent DH. Cano, being a lefty with good/very good but not great power, is perfectly suited to exploit it. Only 7 of his HRs have come away from home.

                        2. He doesn't get on base as much as I would like. A .374 OBP% is nothing to scoff at but it pales in comparison to the top 7 on my list (With the exception of Hamilton).

                        3. His "clutch" stats, particuarly his RISP numbers, leave a lot to be desired. This wouldn't ordinarily be that big a deal but, as we all know, he bats 4th for the Yankees!! They were struggling to capitalise on scoring opportunites early in the year and Cano was a big part of the reason.


                        Where would you rank him?
                        You are ignoring the fact thet he's a 2nd baseman, and a superb one at that.
                        My top 10 players:

                        1. Babe Ruth
                        2. Barry Bonds
                        3. Ty Cobb
                        4. Ted Williams
                        5. Willie Mays
                        6. Alex Rodriguez
                        7. Hank Aaron
                        8. Honus Wagner
                        9. Lou Gehrig
                        10. Mickey Mantle

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by oolalaa View Post
                          I'm gunna give you a break, considering you're only 14 years old (I'm going by the 98 in your username). I know ESPN always shows a pitchers ERA and W/L next to their name before they start but that doesn't mean they are worthwile stats.
                          I am not 14 try adding another 8 years onto that and you will get my age.

                          Jackie-chan-meme.jpg
                          All it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing. -Unknown

                          A good head and a good heart are always a formidable combination. -Nelson Mandela

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by oolalaa View Post
                            Way better numbers than Sabathia?


                            FIP? Price 3.42, Sabathia 3.21.

                            xFIP? Price 3.28, Sabathia 3.25.
                            CC has more than enough PAs to take into account his BABIP and sequencing. We can regress the necessary amount if we wish, but I see no reason to completely ignore BABIP, LOB%, GIDP, controlling the running game, hit batsmen, and wild pitches for a pitcher who has reached the r=.5 mark for all of those pitching events. Well, unless we see his BABIP or LOB% way out of line from his typical numbers, which would indicate a lot of luck, etc. As long as everything is in his normal range, I'd rather see a defensive adjusted RA than ERA or FIP for CC.
                            1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

                            1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

                            1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


                            The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
                            The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by oolalaa View Post
                              I was thinking I had him a little too high


                              3. His "clutch" stats, particuarly his RISP numbers, leave a lot to be desired. This wouldn't ordinarily be that big a deal but, as we all know, he bats 4th for the Yankees!! They were struggling to capitalise on scoring opportunites early in the year and Cano was a big part of the reason.
                              Are you referring to WPA "Clutch." If not, I have never seen somebody champion SIERA or FIP while talking up clutchiness at the same time.
                              1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

                              1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

                              1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


                              The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
                              The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

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