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  • Who's Better Pitcher

    Thanks to EdgartoHOF I noticed the resemblence on the 2 best pitchers in the game right now. Justin Verlander and Felix Hernandez? That's why I question: Who's better? Who has a better career? Who's going to have a better career?

    Discuss.
    18
    Justin Verlander
    33.33%
    6
    Felix Hernandez
    66.67%
    12
    "I am not too serious about anything. I believe you have to enjoy yourself to get the most out of your ability."-
    George Brett

  • #2
    Felix. Better now. Better career to date. Better potential for the future.
    My top 10 players:

    1. Babe Ruth
    2. Barry Bonds
    3. Ty Cobb
    4. Ted Williams
    5. Willie Mays
    6. Alex Rodriguez
    7. Hank Aaron
    8. Honus Wagner
    9. Lou Gehrig
    10. Mickey Mantle

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by GiambiJuice View Post
      Felix. Better now. Better career to date. Better potential for the future.
      Bold. Can you back this up please.
      "I am not too serious about anything. I believe you have to enjoy yourself to get the most out of your ability."-
      George Brett

      Comment


      • #4
        Im a Seattle boy but I went with Verlander, who this season holds edges in ERA+, K/9, K/BB, WHIP, and H/9. He also has an ERA only .07 higher than Felix's
        Last edited by 1905 Giants; 08-28-2012, 09:44 PM.
        “There can be no higher law in journalism than to tell the truth and to shame the devil.” Walter Lippmann

        "Fill in any figure you want for that boy (Mantle). Whatever the figure, it's a deal." - Branch Rickey

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by 1905 Giants View Post
          Im a Seattle boy but I went with Verlander, who this season holds edges in ERA+, K/9, K/BB, WHIP, and H/9. He also has an ERA only .07 higher than Felix's
          And has a terrible defense behind him in a hitter's park. Pretty close, though. We have to keep looking at context beyond just ERA like some people will do.
          1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

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          The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
          The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by yankillaz View Post
            Bold. Can you back this up please.
            Well, the gap is smaller than I would have thought, but I still gotta go with Felix. I just looked up both players and it is striking how similar they are. Almost identical in the number of innings pitched, number of starts, number of strikeouts, and strikeout:walk ratio, walks per 9, k per 9, H/9. It's really uncanny. Felix has a small but not insignificant edge in ERA+, 131 to 127 and he is 3 years younger. Hence the better potential.
            My top 10 players:

            1. Babe Ruth
            2. Barry Bonds
            3. Ty Cobb
            4. Ted Williams
            5. Willie Mays
            6. Alex Rodriguez
            7. Hank Aaron
            8. Honus Wagner
            9. Lou Gehrig
            10. Mickey Mantle

            Comment


            • #7
              felix had a better career and is also younger so he might have more years ahead of him.

              So if I had to pick I would probably take felix. however regarding the longevity I'm not sure. He is younger but just judging by his body he might not be the hardest worker (not sure though). so I would not be very surprised if he loses some velocity in a few years (I think he already throws a little softer than 2 years ago but still very hard of course).

              verlander on the other hand works extremely hard in the offseason. he is in great physical shape. so if no big injury he might be the type of fireballer that brings the heat till his late 30s or even longer like Ryan or Randy. but we will see.
              I now have my own non commercial blog about training for batspeed and power using my training experience in baseball and track and field.

              Comment


              • #8
                Very tough, but I'd take Verlander; the fact that he will constantly throw 93-94 throughout the game just to blow hitters away in key spots when he throws his actual top speed, 97-98 (note that he's able to dial it up at any point in the game, even in the 7th, 8th, and 9th), is simply awesome. Not that it matters all that much, but Felix tops out at 93-94 in comparison. In addition, Verlander volunteers each and every game to potentially throw 120 pitches or so, which is invaluable to a bullpen.

                There are a lot of great pitchers in this league at this moment in time, and these two might be the two very best.
                Last edited by wu-tang clan; 08-29-2012, 07:31 AM.
                "Baseball is really fun"~ Joe Dimaggio
                "I really like baseball"~ Babe Ruth
                "Baseball is my favorite sport"~ Pete Rose

                Comment


                • #9
                  Felix tends to throw 93-94 at the top end but he can reach 96-97. He just over the past couple years realized he had more control and got more movement out of his pitches when he took a little off (and boy does he have movement on his pitches!).

                  Both have 8 years in the league though Verlander is 3 years older than Felix. Verlander has a few more wins than Felix (119-98), but alot of that has to do with the teams they pitch for. Each has won a Cy Young, Verlander also won the MVP last year and was 3rd in Cy Young Voting previously. Felix again won 1 Cy Young after placing 2nd the year before.

                  Felix took a step back last year but is right back on track again in 2012.

                  Verlander is more of a SO pitcher than Felix but this has come about more in the last couple years since they share nearly the same SO/9IP rate for their careers (8.4 for Verlander vs. 8.2 for Felix). Both have nearly identical SO/BB ratios (3.07-3.08) and both are sitting around 4.00 this season. Each of them have won an ERA title and both are fighting for it again this year (with Felix in the lead).

                  In regards to what shape Felix is in, he is actually in pretty good shape. When he first came up, he was a bit overweight, sloppy and just relying on pure talent (of which he has plenty). The past few years though, he has come to Spring Training in better shape than the year before. So physically, with him continuing to take care of himself and having had no major injuries to date, things look up for his career being as long as possible. And by the fact that he got an earlier start than Verlander, he has as good of a shot at playing longer than him as well. Felix (just like Verlander) is a workhorse. But he did not have over usage problems like some players have had as they did baby him along his first few years. And as of yet, we are not seeing any problems, so the outlook is still good.

                  Verlander is good, great even, one of the best of this generation and looks to be around for a long while. Felix is just as good and since he has pretty much paced Verlander to date and done so at a younger age tells me that maybe Felix is better. Felix has already posted 2 seasons with an ERA+ over 170! Verlander, just once.

                  Verlander was nearly otherworldly last year, showing that he had taken a significant step forward in his career, though he has slightly come down to earth this year - while still showing improvement over previous years. Felix is already as good as Verlander and has shown that he can learn and improve, even in an individual season.

                  Verlander had a bad year at age 25, 11-17 record, 4.84 ERA, 92 ERA+, 1.403 WHIP and yet he rebounded. Just like Felix who put up a better slump season at 25, 14-14 record, 3.47 ERA, 109 ERA+, 1.220 WHIP. So Felix's worst is better than Verlander and he sure has done better than Verlander had done up to the age Felix is.

                  Considering the age gap and the fact that Felix is pacing and possibly surpassing Verlander already at a younger age, I have to say that Felix is at this moment the better pitcher and will in the long run have the better career.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by wu-tang clan View Post
                    There are a lot of great pitchers in this league at this moment in time, and these two might be the two very best.
                    I definitely look forward to watching these two play in this league and compete against each other for many many years to come. They are each exciting players to watch and both of them give you the chance at seeing history every time they come in to pitch.

                    Now that the old great pitchers of th 90's/early '00's are out of here, there is finally a true set of new pitchers to take their place and I hope they can be as great as the last ones (though to be honest, Clemens, Maddux, Johnson and Martinez are some heady company to keep).

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The age thing works in favor of Felix. Right now, we cannot tell that Verlander is better because of his last two seasons. But something the two have going that say Lincecum doesn't is their maturity as pitchers. They're being more effective.

                      The best case scenario is that both pitchers will still be thriving in 2020 and we can come up with this conversation tons of times. I just hope they stick with their respective teams.

                      PD. Verlander's 2008 season was kind of a fluke, but it is there nevertheless, and it doesn't help his case here.
                      "I am not too serious about anything. I believe you have to enjoy yourself to get the most out of your ability."-
                      George Brett

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Verlander...
                        All it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing. -Unknown

                        A good head and a good heart are always a formidable combination. -Nelson Mandela

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by RaysFan_98 View Post
                          Verlander...
                          Verlaner because.....?

                          Not disagreeing or anything (well actually I am) but why?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            The more I look at it, 2011 seems like a fluke for Verlander. An amazing season for sure, lots of stuff went right. But his ERA+ of 172 is no better than the 171 and 174 posted by Felix in back to back years.

                            And then this year, he is again having a good year but definitely reverting towards the norm.

                            Maybe he peaked last year and who knows if he will be at that level again... just me thinking aloud here... Maybe he'll have a Marichal type career... not that that is a bad thing... But will he be great much past 30?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              About the age difference, do I care how long they have been in the world or rather just how old their arms are. Both have thrown more than 1,500 innings in the big leagues, and it is actually the younger Hernandez who has tossed about 70 more innings. Figure that to be a wash.

                              Here's the deciding fact. When you Gooooogle "Justin Verlander," by the time you type out "Justin," the first choice is "Bieber." Verlander is not even offered as a clicking option. When you are done typing in "Felix," Hernandez is the second clicking choice in the Google drop-down menu and we're not confronted by "Bieber." That kind of seals the deal.

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