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Miguel Cabrera and the Triple Crown

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  • #46
    Chuck Klein's splits during his triple crown year make him even luckier:

    Home: 20 HR 81 RBI .467 AVG
    Road: 8 HR 39 RBI .280 AVG

    Chuck Klein was rather ordinary on the road that year.

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    • #47
      http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...igoogle_sports

      good article
      1. The more I learn, the more convinced I am that many players are over-rated due to inflated stats from offensive home parks (and eras)
      2. Strat-O-Matic Baseball Player, Collector and Hobbyist since 1969, visit my strat site: http://forums.delphiforums.com/GamersParadise
      3. My table top gaming blog: http://cary333.blogspot.com/

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      • #48
        Originally posted by 9RoyHobbsRF View Post
        Aren't you a rather traditional guy who values things like intangibles, RBI, clutch, clubhouse and so on a lot?
        I now have my own non commercial blog about training for batspeed and power using my training experience in baseball and track and field.

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        • #49
          I sense some negativity towards Cabrera. Now his triple crown season is bad because its the worse OPS+ of all c'mon. If he does get the triple crown, its going to be the biggest mlb news of the season, even better than Trout's magnificient season.

          Kudos to Cabrera for always being in the hunt for the triple crown, which made us not even notice his pursuit this season.
          "I am not too serious about anything. I believe you have to enjoy yourself to get the most out of your ability."-
          George Brett

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          • #50
            BTW, if that guy from MLB wants to compare Triple Crown stars to leeches, then all counting records should be diminished as well. What an idiot. But, its his analysis. If Trout is the MVP over Cabrera's once in a lifetime achievement, then we should diminish:

            Dimaggio's 56 game hitting streak. Because its just luck, and no talent to get a hit. We should cherish Williams's 88 on base game streak.

            Orel Heshiser's 59 scoreless innings? BS. A good defensive team tops that.

            Ripke's consecutive game streak. Bill Simmons wrote several years ago that it was overrated. Now I know why?

            And I could go endlessly.

            There are certain feats that are hallowed and respected. I like WAR and all, but let's not get carried away here. Just in the 2000's we've seen like 7 seasons of 10+ WAR. But since 1967 we haven't seen an old fashioned triple crown. Its almost impossible to accomplish nowadays of hit or miss sluggers, and slap contact hitters.

            I take Miggy if he does it, all the way.
            "I am not too serious about anything. I believe you have to enjoy yourself to get the most out of your ability."-
            George Brett

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            • #51
              Cabrera has been a huge contender in the MVP race for the last 2-3 seasons, and this year he might just win the triple crown, and still not win the MVP. What on Earth does this guy need to do? Bat 1.000?

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              • #52
                A couple things:

                * Miggy was one of the biggest stars in baseball who willingly moved to a tougher position in order to strenthen his team. Cabrera showed up in camp about 30 pounds lighter, having worked like a dog in the off-season to get ready for 3B. How "valuable" is that?

                * I find it ironic that the very things sabers once insisted weren't important -- base stealing and defense -- are now the pillars of their argument for Trout as MVP. Sabers will counter that they are scientists, and that, as such, their opinions change as more data becomes available. However, any saber worth his salt would admit that current defensive metrics are often spotty, and that huge mistakes can be made by judging a player's defense based on only one year (the examples are many). So, if stolen bases and defense are now important, the platform has changed...and maybe someday sabers will crunch more data and realize that there's a lot of value in RBI, too. Anyone waves that off as nonsense would do well to pause for a second and recall how absolutely certain sabers were once upon a time that defense and stealing bases weren't important.
                "Hey Mr. McGraw! Can I pitch to-day?"

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by yankillaz View Post
                  BTW, if that guy from MLB wants to compare Triple Crown stars to leeches, then all counting records should be diminished as well. What an idiot. But, its his analysis. If Trout is the MVP over Cabrera's once in a lifetime achievement, then we should diminish:

                  Dimaggio's 56 game hitting streak. Because its just luck, and no talent to get a hit. We should cherish Williams's 88 on base game streak.

                  Orel Heshiser's 59 scoreless innings? BS. A good defensive team tops that.

                  Ripke's consecutive game streak. Bill Simmons wrote several years ago that it was overrated. Now I know why?

                  And I could go endlessly.

                  There are certain feats that are hallowed and respected. I like WAR and all, but let's not get carried away here. Just in the 2000's we've seen like 7 seasons of 10+ WAR. But since 1967 we haven't seen an old fashioned triple crown. Its almost impossible to accomplish nowadays of hit or miss sluggers, and slap contact hitters.

                  I take Miggy if he does it, all the way.


                  Nice post. The Triple Crown has an ethereal value all its own. And if we get rid of that sort of thing, all you're left with are a bunch of guys running around in the grass hitting a ball with a stick.
                  "Hey Mr. McGraw! Can I pitch to-day?"

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                  • #54
                    The triple crown is just a combination of stats, one of which is grossly overrated. It's a cool achievement, but it shouldn't be the deciding factor in whether or not someone wins the MVP.

                    To those of you who say he should win the MVP if he gets the triple crown, why shouldn't he win the MVP if he doesn't?

                    This isn't a pro trout post either, Miggy is a monster at the plate, and at this point the triple crown should have no bearing on his MVP consideration.

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                    • #55
                      I'm kind of a saber dude with love for the game's history as well. For sure I want Cabrera to win the Triple Crown. Despite all the snarkiness about the Triple Crown being "archaic" or a "vestige from anther era", blah, blah, blah, it still has a strong historical "value" IMO. It's very important to the game. If a baseball fan can't appreciate the Triple Crown on that level, well, then I don't have much to say to that fan. The last Triple Crown was in 1967. I was born in 1968 so I like to see a Triple Crown season in my lifetime! :hyper: However, it's shouldn't be the deciding factor in determining the AL MVP. If Josh Hamilton edges out Cabrera by one home run does the devalue Cabrera's MVP case? Hardly.
                      Last edited by Honus Wagner Rules; 09-25-2012, 10:42 PM.
                      Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by DonnieBaseball View Post
                        The triple crown is just a combination of stats, one of which is grossly overrated. It's a cool achievement, but it shouldn't be the deciding factor in whether or not someone wins the MVP.

                        To those of you who say he should win the MVP if he gets the triple crown, why shouldn't he win the MVP if he doesn't?

                        This isn't a pro trout post either, Miggy is a monster at the plate, and at this point the triple crown should have no bearing on his MVP consideration.

                        As I was writting my last post, I thought of that same question you make. The answer it's the hystorical importance. Many voters want to give Buster Posey the MVP over Ryan Braun and Andrew McCutchen. Why? Well, because the Giants will make the playoffs, and the Brewers or the Pirates won't. (No PED comment here)

                        But why give the MVP to Cabrera if he makes the Triple Crown, or to Trout if he doesn't? Well, the question of the MVP for any season must pass several tests. One of them is, when spoken of X season, player Y comes to mind. Off the top of my head, and end result:

                        2011: Justin Verlander (MVP -n- CY)
                        2010: Josh Hamilton (MVP)
                        2009: Albert Pujols (MVP)
                        2008: Albert Pujols (MVP)
                        2007: Alex Rodriguez (MVP)
                        2006: Johan Santana (CY)
                        2005: Alex Rodriguez (MVP)
                        2004 @ 2001: Barry Bonds (MVP)
                        2000: Pedro Martinez (CY)
                        1999: Pedro Martinez (CY)
                        1998: Sammy Sosa and McGwire (MVP for Sosa)
                        1997: Ken Griffey Jr. (MVP)

                        I could go on and on. If Miguel Cabrera by season end gets the Triple Crown, guess who's going to be the first player that is going to come to mind when someone asks for 2012? And BTW, his recent prowess have helped Detroit stay in contention.
                        "I am not too serious about anything. I believe you have to enjoy yourself to get the most out of your ability."-
                        George Brett

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by yankillaz View Post
                          But why give the MVP to Cabrera if he makes the Triple Crown, or to Trout if he doesn't?
                          The same reason why Fred McGriff isn't in with 493 home runs. He needed 7 more.
                          Lou Gehrig is the Truest Yankee of them all!

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by White Knight View Post
                            The same reason why Fred McGriff isn't in with 493 home runs. He needed 7 more.
                            Precisely my friend. But Mcgriff isn't in not only because he didn't hit 500 homeruns, but because he didn't hit 40 either. It's all about the numbers. Tommy John isn't in the HOF because he didn't win 300. And Harold Baines won't make it because he didn't get 3000 hits.
                            "I am not too serious about anything. I believe you have to enjoy yourself to get the most out of your ability."-
                            George Brett

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by yankillaz View Post
                              Precisely my friend. But Mcgriff isn't in not only because he didn't hit 500 homeruns, but because he didn't hit 40 either. It's all about the numbers. Tommy John isn't in the HOF because he didn't win 300. And Harold Baines won't make it because he didn't get 3000 hits.
                              Yeah, it's sometimes sad, but it's a fact of life in baseball. Some players just need round numbers to be in the HOF, and a triple crown these days would automatically mean an MVP, even if you're playing for a last place team.
                              Lou Gehrig is the Truest Yankee of them all!

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by White Knight View Post
                                Yeah, it's sometimes sad, but it's a fact of life in baseball. Some players just need round numbers to be in the HOF, and a triple crown these days would automatically mean an MVP, even if you're playing for a last place team.
                                That's the point. If Cabrera makes the playoffs and Trout doesn't, who was more valuable to the team? Trout overperformed for a team that basically underperformed all season long, as the Halos. But the Tigers, with a little push from Cabrera, are close to making the postseason, even with a worse record than the Angels.
                                "I am not too serious about anything. I believe you have to enjoy yourself to get the most out of your ability."-
                                George Brett

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