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  • #31
    Originally posted by Evangelion View Post
    You just want the Cardinals to give up and let them win?
    Yes, dammit! Those of us who aren't Cardinals fans would have enjoyed seeing the Nats advance. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Expos/Nats franchise's 44 years without so much as a World Series appearance, let alone a title, the longest championship drought after the Cubs? I can't get too excited about a team I don't care about in the Series two years in a row, but, like Ian, I now believe it's inevitable.

    But seriously, if you can't close the deal with a six-run lead, you don't deserve to advance. I should have known better than to root against St Louis.
    They call me Mr. Baseball. Not because of my love for the game; because of all the stitches in my head.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Evangelion View Post
      Expense? What are you talking about?
      Both teams cannot win. The Cardinals won, therefore, the Nationals could not. Pretty simple.

      You're complaining about expected results, but it seems you're pushing for scripted results that fit your needs of enjoyment.
      That's quite a leap. All I said was that I enjoy seeing new teams win championships, and when the Cardinals win, it's not fun to watch, because I've seen it already.

      Blame the Cardinals for MLB adding a second Wild Card? You just looking for a reason to justify your hate for a baseball team?
      No... What I meant was that MLB never should've added a second Wild Card in the first place (I've been opposed to it ever since it was first proposed, and I stand by that), and it especially grinds me when the new system allows a team I hate into the playoffs that ends up beating the team I was hoping would win the World Series.

      I'm not even a Cardinals fans. I would have liked to see the Nationals advance, too. It didn't happen, because the Nationals couldn't close the game out. You just want the Cardinals to give up and let them win?
      Why do so many people use this utterly asinine argument? Of course no one is supposed to give up and let the other team win. I'm angry at the fact that they won, not the fact that they played to win. These short series are so random and involve so much luck that any team has a chance to beat any other. If one key guy goes into a slump or has an off night, it could cost you your entire season. I'm upset that the fates went the Cardinals' way and allowed them to experience the victory. Why is this concept so difficult for people?
      Baseball Junk Drawer

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      • #33
        Originally posted by ian2813 View Post
        It's incredible to me that Cardinal fans have experienced more good fortune than most fans and yet still find things to complain about. Everyone gets tough breaks sometimes. Does it not make up for it even a little that you have the second-most World Series titles?

        Don Denkinger? Big deal. That team won the World Series three years earlier. Curt Flood? Boo hoo, it meant the Cardinals couldn't win their third World Series in five years. We'd be here a long time if we tried to name every instance of a team losing a key starter during or before the playoffs, and I doubt you'd find the Cardinals to have suffered much worse than most teams in that regard. You Cardinal fans need to stop agonizing over the things that didn't go your way and realize that you're among the most fortunate fans in baseball.

        I don't care how good they are at putting talent on the field. There's nothing fun about watching a team win whose fans have had it much better than just about everyone else historically and recently. I want the fans in other cities to get their moment to cheer. That's the kind of stuff I watch baseball for. Not this.
        I never claimed we haven't experienced great success or that we have had the most bad things happen. I am just dispelling the notion that we get "all" the breaks. That is foolish.
        1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

        1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

        1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


        The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
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        • #34
          Originally posted by chicagowhitesox1173 View Post
          How do you rank this in Cardinal history. Really it was a great game. I'm shocked by it still. I thought last years Cardinals run was special but this game really has put Cardinals history in a new perspective. I say Yankees vs Cardinals in WS.

          I do agree with Ian though on misery. Cardianal fans have gotten a bit cocky. (except for MattC). At the same time MattC is trying to not jinx em though.
          I don't believe in jinx's - I am just trying to avoid confrontation.
          1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

          1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

          1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


          The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
          The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

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          • #35
            Originally posted by JR Hart View Post
            The Giants have 5 starters better than any Cardinal starter. This ain't no Brewers, this ain't no Rangers. Giants in 5 . This is big boy ball now.
            Kyle Loshe was one of the best 6-7 pitchers in the NL this year. Carp and Wainwright have had a wee bit of success in this league. You may have heard that Carp has been decent in the postseason too. Lincecum and Zito were both worse than Lynn this year.

            Of course the Cardinal's offense is lightyears better than the Giants. The Giants won 58% of their games and the Cardinals 54% - not really a big difference given 162 games. And of course the Cards run differential was much, much better. These are two evenly matched teams playing in a 7 game crapshoot.
            1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

            1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

            1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


            The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
            The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

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            • #36
              It's incredible to me that Cardinal fans have experienced more good fortune than most fans and yet still find things to complain about

              let's be fair and add some counter balance

              2 of the Cardinals WS wins were during WW2 when the leagues and league quality were watered down

              they played 3 series in the 1960s and in all 3 the other team pitched a pitcher with only 2 days rest in game 7

              In 1964 The Yankees best pitcher Whitey Ford pitched about 3 innings before missing the rest of the 7 game series, the Cardinals still needed a full 7 games to win and Game 7 the Yankees pitched a rookie who had been in the ML about 6 weeks. In Game 4 the Yanks played inexperienced Phil Linz at SS for the ailing Tony Kubek, witht he Yanks leading the series 2 games to 1 and leading game four 3-0 a misplayed inning ending double play ball left the bases loaded and 1 out. The Yanks get the DP they are home free with a 3-1 series lead. Ken Boyer then hit a grand slam salvaging the game and the series. As it was , even though he had an off year offensively, steady defensive SS Tony Kubek missed the entire series

              In 1967 The Red Sox made the WS with one of the worst records ever for a pennant winner and their second best player missed the series and their one true legitimate starter could not start Game 1 but pitched a 1 hitter in game 2 and another great game in G5 only to come back with no rest in Game 7 give the Sox Conigliaro and a rested Lonborg for Games 1,4 and if necessary 7 and I doubt the Cards win

              In 1968 the Cards lost the series because they could not hit a fat journeyman pitcher

              In 1982 they won narrowly the NL East and in the heat of the pennant race, they were given a game against the Giants when a player tried to steal home with 2 outs and 2 strikes in extra innings and the pitch was right down the middle for strike 3 but the umpire got distracted by the runner stealing home and forgot to call the pitch a strike (strike 3 ending the inning) and just ruled on the runners attempted steal, if the Cards lose that game and their lead is only 1 game and who knows how the season turns out differently

              In 1985 you can talk all you want about Denkinger, the Royals outscored the Cards 28-13 in the series and is one of the FEW series in history where one team lost three games by 5 or more runs, The Denkinger game was Game 6 and the Cards could have come back and won Game 7 with their ace, but in fact collapsed and the whole team and organization foolishly looked like a bunch of whining crybabies

              In 1987, the only reason the Cards beat the Giants in the playoffs was they had the home field for 4 games vs the Giants 3, as it was the Giants out homered them 9-2 and talk about Flood, the Cards won game 6 1-0 (in an elimination game for them) only because of Maldanado's misplayed flyball giving them a 1-0 win (not 4-1 like 1968 Game 7)

              In 2006 they made the playoffs with a laughable .516 win % yet went on to win the series

              and throughout the last decade and a half they have played in by far the weakest division in baseball and on top of that get to play the hapless Royals every year in interleague games giving them an easy path into the playoffs

              and even this year they got the Nats who did not pitch Strasburg their best P

              they have had their share of good fortune as has been pointed out here
              Last edited by 9RoyHobbsRF; 10-13-2012, 06:56 AM.
              1. The more I learn, the more convinced I am that many players are over-rated due to inflated stats from offensive home parks (and eras)
              2. Strat-O-Matic Baseball Player, Collector and Hobbyist since 1969, visit my strat site: http://forums.delphiforums.com/GamersParadise
              3. My table top gaming blog: http://cary333.blogspot.com/

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Matthew C. View Post
                Kyle Loshe was one of the best 6-7 pitchers in the NL this year. Carp and Wainwright have had a wee bit of success in this league. You may have heard that Carp has been decent in the postseason too. Lincecum and Zito were both worse than Lynn this year.

                Of course the Cardinal's offense is lightyears better than the Giants. The Giants won 58% of their games and the Cardinals 54% - not really a big difference given 162 games. And of course the Cards run differential was much, much better. These are two evenly matched teams playing in a 7 game crapshoot.


                light years?

                the Cards scored 361 runs in road games the Giants 410

                agree though that it is a close matchup
                Last edited by 9RoyHobbsRF; 10-13-2012, 05:59 AM.
                1. The more I learn, the more convinced I am that many players are over-rated due to inflated stats from offensive home parks (and eras)
                2. Strat-O-Matic Baseball Player, Collector and Hobbyist since 1969, visit my strat site: http://forums.delphiforums.com/GamersParadise
                3. My table top gaming blog: http://cary333.blogspot.com/

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by ol' aches and pains View Post
                  Yes, dammit! Those of us who aren't Cardinals fans would have enjoyed seeing the Nats advance. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Expos/Nats franchise's 44 years without so much as a World Series appearance, let alone a title, the longest championship drought after the Cubs? I can't get too excited about a team I don't care about in the Series two years in a row, but, like Ian, I now believe it's inevitable.

                  But seriously, if you can't close the deal with a six-run lead, you don't deserve to advance. I should have known better than to root against St Louis.
                  not sure if you are tallking pennant or series, but championship to me equals series win

                  Astros have never won and been around longer than the Expos/Nats

                  The Senators / Rangers are 1 year older than the Astros and have never won

                  The Indians have not won since 1948
                  1. The more I learn, the more convinced I am that many players are over-rated due to inflated stats from offensive home parks (and eras)
                  2. Strat-O-Matic Baseball Player, Collector and Hobbyist since 1969, visit my strat site: http://forums.delphiforums.com/GamersParadise
                  3. My table top gaming blog: http://cary333.blogspot.com/

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                  • #39
                    can someone please delete this thread or at least change the title to the correct matchup?
                    I now have my own non commercial blog about training for batspeed and power using my training experience in baseball and track and field.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by brett View Post
                      Are the Cards this years Cards?
                      Post of the Week! (tips cap)



                      The Cards were the first team in history to be down 6 runs in a do or die elimination game and come back and win. The naysayers can focus on the Wildcard spot, fewer wins than other teams or demean the team all you want. It's the pinnacle of irrelevant information.
                      Last edited by StanTheMan; 10-13-2012, 07:21 AM.
                      "Herman Franks to Sal Yvars to Bobby Thomson. Ralph Branca to Bobby Thomson to Helen Rita... cue Russ Hodges."

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by StanTheMan View Post
                        Post of the Week! (tips cap)



                        The Cards were the first team in history to be down 6 runs in a do or die elimination game and come back and win. Focus on the Wildcard spot, fewer wins than other teams or demean the team all you want. It's the pinnacle of irrelevant information.
                        how irrelevant is it that the National best P did not play
                        1. The more I learn, the more convinced I am that many players are over-rated due to inflated stats from offensive home parks (and eras)
                        2. Strat-O-Matic Baseball Player, Collector and Hobbyist since 1969, visit my strat site: http://forums.delphiforums.com/GamersParadise
                        3. My table top gaming blog: http://cary333.blogspot.com/

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by 9RoyHobbsRF View Post
                          how irrelevant is it that the National best P did not play
                          Okay, so he didn't play. And you realize that the Cardinals played without without their ace for 150+ games this year, right? And let's also remember the Nationals chose not to use him. It's not like he was hurt or that the Cardinals elected for him to not play.

                          I think really the only comparison between the Cardinals and Yankees is the success both teams have had. The Yankees buy championships while the Cardinals develop talent. Yes, they have multiple vets on the team as well, but look at the young talent the Cardinals throw out each year. They are a "small-market" team that has a lot of success.
                          Mike Hopper
                          Former Gateway Grizzlies Intern

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Bulldog19 View Post
                            Okay, so he didn't play. And you realize that the Cardinals played without without their ace for 150+ games this year, right? And let's also remember the Nationals chose not to use him. It's not like he was hurt or that the Cardinals elected for him to not play.

                            I think really the only comparison between the Cardinals and Yankees is the success both teams have had. The Yankees buy championships while the Cardinals develop talent. Yes, they have multiple vets on the team as well, but look at the young talent the Cardinals throw out each year. They are a "small-market" team that has a lot of success.
                            I think the Cardinals have a great record and a tremendous never say die spirit and bats to match

                            I will say run differential is not as important as some make it out to be if you lose close games

                            winning games 11-4 and losing games 2-1 still result in a 1-1 record no matter how nice the run differential is
                            1. The more I learn, the more convinced I am that many players are over-rated due to inflated stats from offensive home parks (and eras)
                            2. Strat-O-Matic Baseball Player, Collector and Hobbyist since 1969, visit my strat site: http://forums.delphiforums.com/GamersParadise
                            3. My table top gaming blog: http://cary333.blogspot.com/

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by 9RoyHobbsRF View Post
                              I think the Cardinals have a great record and a tremendous never say die spirit and bats to match

                              I will say run differential is not as important as some make it out to be if you lose close games

                              winning games 11-4 and losing games 2-1 still result in a 1-1 record no matter how nice the run differential is
                              Absolutely right. I made the comment last night when the Cards were down 3-0 in the first that they'd have to score 10 runs to win the game. It was a close game, but it was a high-scoring game. That's how the Cardinals have been all year..
                              Mike Hopper
                              Former Gateway Grizzlies Intern

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by 9RoyHobbsRF View Post
                                not sure if you are tallking pennant or series, but championship to me equals series win

                                Astros have never won and been around longer than the Expos/Nats

                                The Senators / Rangers are 1 year older than the Astros and have never won

                                The Indians have not won since 1948
                                I repeat: isn't the Expos/Nats franchise's 44 years without so much as a World Series appearance, let alone a title, the longest championship drought after the Cubs?
                                They call me Mr. Baseball. Not because of my love for the game; because of all the stitches in my head.

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