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Has Mike Trout peaked?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by willshad View Post
    Manny Ramirez, one of the best hitters ever, only had 5.5 WAR twice in his entire career..once barely, at 5.8. I guess hitting really doesn't matter much after all!
    Ramirez loses a chunk for being a poor fielder so its not just Trout being scored so high on defense. Is WAR biased towards fielding or is 100+ year tradition of comparing batting stats biased toward batting value?

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    • #17
      Originally posted by willshad View Post
      Manny Ramirez, one of the best hitters ever, only had 5.5 WAR twice in his entire career..once barely, at 5.8. I guess hitting really doesn't matter much after all!
      Ramirez played in an era that had 10% more scoring and in a park that was 15% more favorable than Trout. 10% plus 15% = 25%.
      "It's better to look good, than be good."

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      • #18
        I could actually see him decline, but still be great, and then "peak again" when he is around 27-28.
        Chop! Chop! Chop!

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        • #19
          Originally posted by ipitch View Post
          He's pretty good, but he's no Ben Zobrist.
          Zobrist never had this kind of a season.
          All it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing. -Unknown

          A good head and a good heart are always a formidable combination. -Nelson Mandela

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          • #20
            Trout was hitless today!
            "Herman Franks to Sal Yvars to Bobby Thomson. Ralph Branca to Bobby Thomson to Helen Rita... cue Russ Hodges."

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            • #21
              Originally posted by StanTheMan View Post
              Trout was hitless today!
              So was Zobrist... but Michael Young still has lots of intangibles.
              "I can see how he won twenty-five games. What I don't understand is how he lost five." - Yogi Berra on Sandy Koufax's 1963 season.

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              • #22
                Trout will hit .400 with 40 home runs and 200 runs scored next year

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                • #23
                  That'd be scary if he hasn't yet.
                  Rest in Peace Jose Fernandez (1992-2016)

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                  • #24
                    I get nervous for these kids if they get brought up too fast. Some look good statistically in the minors, but still have holes in their game and are brought up needing more seasoning - especially when it comes to the 5-tool types. Seeing kids like Felix Pie, Corey Patterson, Rickie Weeks, Delmon Young, etc struggle with strike zones and such but pushed to the majors because of their power/speed combo.

                    It's nice to see both Trout and Harper do well out of the gate. Then again, at least Trout was so polished it was almost ridiculous to leave him down in AAA. Some of his fallback later in the season may have been from being tired. IIRC, he had about 50 more PAs than any other time in his pro career in 2012. Being that he still has years to go before he's physically filled out, it'd be no surprise to me if he simply wore down - along with the mental pressures that came with it.

                    He likely drops down a bit this year simply because last season isn't easy to replicate. But I think it's only a year or two before he's hitting 3rd in the order in front of Albert and putting up consistent high level seasons. If anything - and this goes for both Trout and Harper - I'd like to see them tone it down in the field and on the basepaths. They'll learn hopefully, that in a marathon such as baseball, self-preservation at times has its benefits. If they keep going at 100% all the time, they're much more likely to break down at an early age.
                    "Chuckie doesn't take on 2-0. Chuckie's hackin'." - Chuck Carr two days prior to being released by the Milwaukee Brewers

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                    • #25
                      It's difficult to top that, even for him. In order to top what he did this season, we may be talking about a top 5 all time player by the time his career ends. And still, I like Harper better.
                      "I am not too serious about anything. I believe you have to enjoy yourself to get the most out of your ability."-
                      George Brett

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                      • #26
                        Nope.

                        ...............
                        My top 10 players:

                        1. Babe Ruth
                        2. Barry Bonds
                        3. Ty Cobb
                        4. Ted Williams
                        5. Willie Mays
                        6. Alex Rodriguez
                        7. Hank Aaron
                        8. Honus Wagner
                        9. Lou Gehrig
                        10. Mickey Mantle

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                        • #27
                          Still nope.
                          My top 10 players:

                          1. Babe Ruth
                          2. Barry Bonds
                          3. Ty Cobb
                          4. Ted Williams
                          5. Willie Mays
                          6. Alex Rodriguez
                          7. Hank Aaron
                          8. Honus Wagner
                          9. Lou Gehrig
                          10. Mickey Mantle

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                          • #28
                            A 12+ WAR season has only be done five times my three players.

                            12+ WAR Seasons
                            14.1 Babe Ruth 1923
                            12.9 Babe Ruth 1921
                            12.4 Babe Ruth 1927
                            12.4 Carl Yastrzemski 1967
                            12.1 Rogers Hornsby 1924

                            I'd love to see Trout make a run at a 12 WAR season some day.
                            Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Honus Wagner Rules View Post
                              A 12+ WAR season has only be done five times my three players.

                              12+ WAR Seasons
                              14.1 Babe Ruth 1923
                              12.9 Babe Ruth 1921
                              12.4 Babe Ruth 1927
                              12.4 Carl Yastrzemski 1967
                              12.1 Rogers Hornsby 1924

                              I'd love to see Trout make a run at a 12 WAR season some day.
                              Trout would likely have done it as a 20 year old rookie if not for the late call-up.

                              He had 10.8 WAR in 139 games. That's 12.6 per 162.
                              My top 10 players:

                              1. Babe Ruth
                              2. Barry Bonds
                              3. Ty Cobb
                              4. Ted Williams
                              5. Willie Mays
                              6. Alex Rodriguez
                              7. Hank Aaron
                              8. Honus Wagner
                              9. Lou Gehrig
                              10. Mickey Mantle

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by GiambiJuice View Post
                                Trout would likely have done it as a 20 year old rookie if not for the late call-up.

                                He had 10.8 WAR in 139 games. That's 12.6 per 162.
                                So maybe he peaked then?

                                There have been ten such seasons at FG:

                                Ruth 15.0 (1923)
                                Ruth 13.9 (1921)
                                Ruth 13.3 (1920)
                                Ruth 13.0 (1927)
                                Bonds 12.7 (2002)
                                Ruth 12.5 (1924)
                                Gehrig 12.5 (1927)
                                Bonds 12.5 (2001)
                                Hornsby 12.5 (1924)
                                Ruth 12.0 (1926)

                                There have been 56 10 WAR seasons at BBRef, 52 at FG. I can’t do complete searches at BBRef, but AFAIK, this is the list of players with more than one 10 rWAR season:

                                Ruth (9)
                                Hornsby (6)
                                Mays (6)
                                Cobb (3)
                                Williams (3)
                                Mantle (3)
                                Bonds (3)
                                Wagner (2)
                                Gehrig (2)
                                Yastrzemski (2)
                                Trout (2)

                                The fWAR > 10 list is similar:

                                Ruth (9)
                                Hornsby (6)
                                Bonds (5)
                                Williams (4)
                                Mays (4)
                                Cobb (3)
                                Mantle (3)
                                Wagner (2)
                                Gehrig (2)
                                Trout (2)

                                And this is the list of most times led the league in fWAR, with the longest consecutive streak in ( ):

                                Wagner 11 (9)
                                Ruth 11 (4)*
                                Hornsby 10 (4)
                                Mays 9 (4)#
                                Bonds 9 (4)#
                                Williams 7 (4)
                                Mantle 5 (4)#
                                Rodriguez 5 (2)#
                                Cobb 5 (2)
                                Trout 5 (5)

                                * - One season’s fWAR totals was a result of pitching as well as hitting.

                                # - Led all position players in fWAR in an additional season (two additional seasons in the case of Bonds), but finished behind one or more pitchers in fWAR).

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