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The death of the walker

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  • The death of the walker

    What's up with this? There was only one player in all of MLB with over 100 walks, and that was Adam Dunn who barely made it with 105. When was the last time this happened? Will we ever see a 150 walk player again? We always talk about the death of the base stealer, and how we might not see 100 again. Well, under the radar is the walker!
    Last edited by White Knight; 12-06-2012, 10:44 AM.
    Lou Gehrig is the Truest Yankee of them all!

  • #2
    Originally posted by White Knight View Post
    What's up with this? There was only one player in all of MLB with over 100 walks, and that was Adam Dunn who barely made it with 105. When was the last time this happened? Will we ever see a 150 walk player again? We always talk about the death of the base stealer, and how we might not see 100 again. Well, under the radar is the walker!
    In a non strike year....1986, Wade Boggs at 105.

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    • #3
      Strikeout rates are at an all-time high, while walk rates are the lowest since 1968.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by ipitch View Post
        Strikeout rates are at an all-time high, while walk rates are the lowest since 1968.
        While the team I root for is probably the least patient in the entire sport. The Pirates have set the franchise record for getting fanned four years in a row. The Buccos could surely use a healthy jolt of patience.

        2.70 BB per vs 8.36 SO per

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        • #5
          Double Post

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          • #6
            So why do you guys think players are walking less? Is it because pitchers have less fear in going after the hitter, strike zone changes, or less patient/less good-eye hitters?
            Lou Gehrig is the Truest Yankee of them all!

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            • #7
              Originally posted by White Knight View Post
              So why do you guys think players are walking less? Is it because pitchers have less fear in going after the hitter, strike zone changes, or less patient/less good-eye hitters?
              Mainly this.

              When HR rates were at all-time highs during the steroid era, pitchers needed to be much more careful.
              My top 10 players:

              1. Babe Ruth
              2. Barry Bonds
              3. Ty Cobb
              4. Ted Williams
              5. Willie Mays
              6. Alex Rodriguez
              7. Hank Aaron
              8. Honus Wagner
              9. Lou Gehrig
              10. Mickey Mantle

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              • #8
                That is strange, I would have never thought only one player had 100 walks. With the way saber stats have taken over I would feel players would be taking more walks.
                "(Shoeless Joe Jackson's fall from grace is one of the real tragedies of baseball. I always thought he was more sinned against than sinning." -- Connie Mack

                "I have the ultimate respect for Whitesox fans. They were as miserable as the Cubs and Redsox fans ever were but always had the good decency to keep it to themselves. And when they finally won the World Series, they celebrated without annoying every other fan in the country."--Jim Caple, ESPN (Jan. 12, 2011)

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by chicagowhitesox1173 View Post
                  That is strange, I would have never thought only one player had 100 walks. With the way saber stats have taken over I would feel players would be taking more walks.
                  Well the pitchers are all focused on having lower WHIPs and FIPs :-)
                  My top 10 players:

                  1. Babe Ruth
                  2. Barry Bonds
                  3. Ty Cobb
                  4. Ted Williams
                  5. Willie Mays
                  6. Alex Rodriguez
                  7. Hank Aaron
                  8. Honus Wagner
                  9. Lou Gehrig
                  10. Mickey Mantle

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by White Knight View Post
                    So why do you guys think players are walking less? Is it because pitchers have less fear in going after the hitter, strike zone changes, or less patient/less good-eye hitters?
                    Reasoning i have heard before - latin players are taught to be free swingers (sosa, starlin castro, vlad guerrero), which in the end would mean less walks plus higher k's

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Cap78 View Post
                      Reasoning i have heard before - latin players are taught to be free swingers (sosa, starlin castro, vlad guerrero), which in the end would mean less walks plus higher k's
                      But a lot of hitters that have high K's, they walk a lot like Dunn and Abreu (in his prime). David Ortiz doesn't fall into that stereotype of Dominican players who are free swingers. But I agree, most of them are free swingers with low OBP (by low OBP I mean the gap between their OBP and average is less than .050).

                      Anyway, I think one of the reasons why batters walk less nowadays is because pitchers are more aggressive now. They want to throw more strikes. In 2000, 36 pitchers had 80 or more walks (7 in the 100s). Compare that to 2012. Only 11 pitchers had 80 or more walks (2 in the 100s).
                      Using a stolen chant from Boston Celtics fans whenever an L.A. team is playing up there just reeks of inferiority complex.

                      If hitting a baseball is the toughest thing to do in sports, then pitching must be the easiest thing to do in sports.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by UnderPressure View Post
                        But a lot of hitters that have high K's, they walk a lot like Dunn and Abreu (in his prime). David Ortiz doesn't fall into that stereotype of Dominican players who are free swingers. But I agree, most of them are free swingers with low OBP (by low OBP I mean the gap between their OBP and average is less than .050).

                        Anyway, I think one of the reasons why batters walk less nowadays is because pitchers are more aggressive now. They want to throw more strikes. In 2000, 36 pitchers had 80 or more walks (7 in the 100s). Compare that to 2012. Only 11 pitchers had 80 or more walks (2 in the 100s).
                        Once Moneyball became the mainstream strategy it became less effective as the strategic field slowly leveled. Pitchers are now throwing more 1st. strike straight fastballs than 5 or so years ago. While many folks, among them BBF posters; regard the low scoring of the past 2 years as a result of steroid testing, the Social Darwinism aspect of competition is ever present.

                        http://stevegallanter.wordpress.com

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by White Knight View Post
                          So why do you guys think players are walking less? Is it because pitchers have less fear in going after the hitter, strike zone changes, or less patient/less good-eye hitters?
                          Pitchers era. also it seems to me like the strike zone has become a little larger but I cannot prove it.

                          walks seem to correlate with runs, when runs are down pitchers are less afraid to throw strikes. league walks are lowest since 1988:
                          http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/MLB/bat.shtml
                          Last edited by dominik; 12-06-2012, 11:53 PM.
                          I now have my own non commercial blog about training for batspeed and power using my training experience in baseball and track and field.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by GiambiJuice View Post
                            Well the pitchers are all focused on having lower WHIPs and FIPs :-)
                            Warren Spahn was heard to lament on his deathbed; "My only regret is that I didn't have a higher ERA+. I'm so overrated! My 363 wins are meaningless!" It was very sad.
                            They call me Mr. Baseball. Not because of my love for the game; because of all the stitches in my head.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by GiambiJuice View Post
                              Well the pitchers are all focused on having lower WHIPs and FIPs :-)
                              that is a good point. as a reaction to the patient "drive the pitch count up" approach that hitters used (especially red sox and yankee teams of the 00s were famous for that approach-sometimes in the first innings it looked like the prefered striking out on 5 pitches than getting a hit on the first) pitchers were really drilled to "get ahead early" in the count (throw first and second pitch strikes) and avoid walks. walks were considered as the pitchers death (not wrongly) and so pitchers do anything to avoid them and keep their BB/9 down.

                              pounding the zone is en vogue now and pitchers like halladay made a living out of pounding the zone against the uber patient AL east hitters. the decreases walks a lot.

                              on top of that some teams (especially in the NL) start to counter that pitchers approach with more free swinging. the 10 and 12 champion giants have no patience at all and that certainly limited their offense somewhat but in the post season against the best pitchers that really pound the zone that can actually be an advantage. that developement further decreases the walks.
                              I now have my own non commercial blog about training for batspeed and power using my training experience in baseball and track and field.

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