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Whats the best way to gauge a Offence?

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  • Whats the best way to gauge a Offence?

    I was reading on mlb.com.....

    Even though the offense received constant criticism, it did score 697 runs. When balanced against the 577 runs the team allowed, the Rays finished with an impressive run differential of plus-120, which was the third best in baseball behind the Nationals (plus-137) and the Yankees (plus-136).

    The last team to rank in the top three in the Major Leagues in run differential but miss the playoffs was the 2005 Indians, who finished at plus-147 en route to a 93-69 mark.

    The Rays' 577 runs allowed were the fewest by an AL team since the 1990 A's surrendered 570.

    So is R/D a good way to measure a offence?
    All it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing. -Unknown

    A good head and a good heart are always a formidable combination. -Nelson Mandela

  • #2
    Originally posted by RaysFan_98 View Post
    So is R/D a good way to measure a offence?
    Obviously not, since run differential takes both offense and defense into consideration. And offense measures only half of what R/D measures.

    The best way to measure offense is to look at offense.

    Asking if R/D is a good way to measure offense is like asking if Total WAR is a good way of handing out Gold Gloves or Silver Sluggers.

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    • #3
      Number of runs scored is the best way to measure an offense. That's the sole purpose of an offense - to score as many runs as possible.
      My top 10 players:

      1. Babe Ruth
      2. Barry Bonds
      3. Ty Cobb
      4. Ted Williams
      5. Willie Mays
      6. Alex Rodriguez
      7. Hank Aaron
      8. Honus Wagner
      9. Lou Gehrig
      10. Mickey Mantle

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      • #4
        Originally posted by GiambiJuice View Post
        Number of runs scored is the best way to measure an offense. That's the sole purpose of an offense - to score as many runs as possible.
        Perhaps but i was just curious.
        All it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing. -Unknown

        A good head and a good heart are always a formidable combination. -Nelson Mandela

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        • #5
          Originally posted by GiambiJuice View Post
          Number of runs scored is the best way to measure an offense. That's the sole purpose of an offense - to score as many runs as possible.
          But you could also take into account park factors, strength of schedule, pitching staff, etc.
          Baseball Junk Drawer

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          • #6
            Was this whole thing just a guise to remind everybody that the Rays run differential was 3rd best in the majors? Surely you could have not even speculated for a second that a 650 -550 (R/D of 100) team had a better offense than a 800-750(R/D of 50) team.
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            • #7
              Originally posted by Matthew C. View Post
              Was this whole thing just a guise to remind everybody that the Rays run differential was 3rd best in the majors? Surely you could have not even speculated for a second that a 650 -550 (R/D of 100) team had a better offense than a 800-750(R/D of 50) team.
              Ahhh MeeesorRaysFaaan98 you ha' sum' splainin' to doooo.
              "No matter how great you were once upon a time — the years go by, and men forget,” - W. A. Phelon in Baseball Magazine in 1915. “Ross Barnes, forty years ago, was as great as Cobb or Wagner ever dared to be. Had scores been kept then as now, he would have seemed incomparably marvelous.”

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              • #8
                I think R/D gives a good indicator of the quality of a team. Some denigrated the 2010 SF Giants as an inferior champion. Yet, they had a +114 R/D which was second in the NL. Not coincidently the Giants had the second best record in the NL as well. I forgot which poster it was but we went round and round about this. He even said the Giants would NEVER win another World Series with this group of players. Ha!
                Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Honus Wagner Rules View Post
                  I think R/D gives a good indicator of the quality of a team. Some denigrated the 2010 SF Giants as an inferior champion. Yet, they had a +114 R/D which was second in the NL. Not coincidently the Giants had the second best record in the NL as well. I forgot which poster it was but we went round and round about this. He even said the Giants would NEVER win another World Series with this group of players. Ha!
                  For their back of the envelope uses, RD tracks WL about as well as the pythagorean formula with exponent 2. Maybe better. I don't know; I ran them once but I forgot.
                  Indeed the first step toward finding out is to acknowledge you do not satisfactorily know already; so that no blight can so surely arrest all intellectual growth as the blight of cocksureness.--CS Peirce

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Matthew C. View Post
                    Was this whole thing just a guise to remind everybody that the Rays run differential was 3rd best in the majors? Surely you could have not even speculated for a second that a 650 -550 (R/D of 100) team had a better offense than a 800-750(R/D of 50) team.
                    Nope was the only point of posting that to try and start something? I think it was
                    All it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing. -Unknown

                    A good head and a good heart are always a formidable combination. -Nelson Mandela

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                    • #11
                      WL% = .500 + .00065RD yields a regression line that accounts for 91% of the variation in WL. This is comparable to pythagorean projection using an exponent of 1.81.

                      http://www.baseball-fever.com/showth...n+differential
                      Indeed the first step toward finding out is to acknowledge you do not satisfactorily know already; so that no blight can so surely arrest all intellectual growth as the blight of cocksureness.--CS Peirce

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by RaysFan_98 View Post
                        Nope was the only point of posting that to try and start something? I think it was
                        Yeah - but I wasn't trying to disguise anything.
                        1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

                        1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

                        1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


                        The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
                        The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

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                        • #13
                          Yep, runs scored for offense. During the season I like the SRS that BR runs that figures in strength of schedule/opponent.
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                          "If I hear Bowie Kuhn say just once more he's doing something for the betterment of baseball, I'm going to throw-up.">Sparky Anderson
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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by GiambiJuice View Post
                            Number of runs scored is the best way to measure an offense. That's the sole purpose of an offense - to score as many runs as possible.
                            it also depends on the park. 800 runs in YS or boston are not as impressive as 800 runs in san francisco or LA.

                            run differential is also missleading since 120 runs of differential are more in a low scoring park then in a high scoring park. you need to calculate pytharogan expectation to get a more telling result.
                            I now have my own non commercial blog about training for batspeed and power using my training experience in baseball and track and field.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by RaysFan_98 View Post
                              Whats the best way to gauge a Offence?
                              Originally posted by filihok View Post
                              To Recap:
                              BA to Runs Scored = .56
                              ISO to Runs Scored = .56
                              OBP to Runs Scored = .64
                              SLG to Runs Scored = .85
                              OPS to Runs Scored = .90
                              wOBA to Runs Scored = .90

                              BA to Wins = .07
                              OBP to Wins = .17
                              SLG to Wins = .24
                              WAR to Wins = .83

                              It's quite obvious that OPS and wOBA are the best indicators of total offense and that WAR is the best measure of wins.
                              However none of these measures factor for league, park, DH, etc...

                              The best measure of offense is wRC+

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