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breaking news - players linked to miami clinic giving ped

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  • #91
    Originally posted by White Knight View Post
    Gehrig, Ruth, and Foxx were all apex hitters (I just coined a new phrase, and I like it) who dominated. Thome is far from a scrub, but he will never be mentioned along those lines, nor should he.

    Pierrre's 2009 was a big increase from his past few years, but still amounted to just a 105 OPS+. He had a 107 before, than dipped to 84, 82, 77, and 77 before returning to 105. I am talking about "monster year" OPS+'s only (I define it as around 200). Like Giambi's 2001. Let's say he didn't admit to steroids or hadn't been named. That season still screams PED's.
    So...I'm to conclude that:
    'Apex' hitters can have huge spikes in performance, and that is totally normal
    And below average hitters like Juan Pierre can have spikes in performance and that is totally normal.

    But, if a good, not great, hitter has a spike in performance that is a sure sign of PED usage?

    That 'logic' doesn't make sense to me.


    At all.




    However, if you just want to talk huge increases, how about Posada's 2007? Some massive increases for a 35 year old. And what happens the following year? An injury. Hmm...
    So, a 36 year old catcher getting injured is a sign of PED usage? That logic doesn't make sense to me. At all.


    As ipitch pointed out. The main difference in Posada's 1987 was BABIP.
    Which of these seasons is the clear result of PED's?
    589 PA's, 20 HR, 13% BB, 17% K's, .206 ISO, 13% of fly balls become home runs?
    589 PA's, 23 HR, 13% BB, 17% K's, .197 ISO, 15% of fly balls become home runs?

    The look plenty identical, right?

    Well, the first season, with 20 HR's is Posada's suspect 2007
    The second season, with 23 HR's is the average of Posada's previous 3 seasons (prorated to 589 PA's)

    In 2007, Posada had the following BABIPS on different batted ball types
    GB .301
    FB .254
    LD .759

    In 2006 Posada had the following BABIPS on different batted ball types
    GB .221
    FB .184
    LD .685
    *Posada

    The main difference between Posada's 2006 and 2007 was that the defenses made plays on him more often in 2006 than in 2007.

    Now, one could say that perhaps Posada was hitting the ball harder in 2007, making it more difficult for defenses to field his batted balls. But...the main indicator of the authority by which a player is making contact is HR/FB. Remember that Posada's HR/FB decreased in 2007 by 2%

    I see no evidence in Posada's stats that indicate anything other than typical BABIP variation was responsible for him increased numbers.


    Originally posted by Ben Grimm View Post
    How about Carlos Ruiz's .540 SLG last year as a 33 year old catcher? He had a .393 SLG leading up to last season and never surpassed .450
    Carlos Ruiz' HR/FB per season
    2006 14%
    2007 5%
    2008 5%
    2009 8%
    2010 7%
    2011 4%
    2012 15%
    *Carlos Ruiz

    This alone certainly isn't evidence of PED usage.
    But, its' a much different situation than Posada's.
    Last edited by filihok; 02-05-2013, 07:48 PM.

    Comment


    • #92
      Braun has admitted giving $$$ to Bosch... as payments for consultation on how to appeal the previous failed drug test. Man, this lawyer is good.
      And I thought Braun and representatives were going to go for the clerical mistake angle next.

      BTW, is 20-30 grand the going price for professional consultation?

      http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/89...itive-ped-test
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      • #93
        Originally posted by Buczilla View Post
        I wonder how the Miami News Times obtained all this information.
        Disgruntled former partner of the clinic who grabbed all the files he could carry on his way out

        Comment


        • #94
          Originally posted by GordonGecko View Post
          Disgruntled former partner of the clinic who grabbed all the files he could carry on his way out
          Not a bad scoop for a free paper, too bad the information that was provided free to them won't come cheap.

          Comment


          • #95
            Originally posted by Matthew C. View Post
            Braun has admitted giving $$$ to Bosch... as payments for consultation on how to appeal the previous failed drug test. Man, this lawyer is good.
            And I thought Braun and representatives were going to go for the clerical mistake angle next.
            Yes, the lawyer is earning his keep. But Bosch wouldn't know about T/E ratios unless he were in the business of giving synthetic T to athletes, and why would an athlete already facing a sanction for a positive test get involved with someone in that business? How would he know about Bosch except through the PED grapevine? Also, Braun failed the isotope test, which is really the decisive factor, so T/E information would be useless. Even in the Floyd Landis (2006 Tour de France winner) case, when an appeal to CAS (Court of Arbitration in Sport) resulted in a ruling that threw out the T/E results, he was still judged guilty based on the isotope test. But if this consulting really did occur, it could have involved the isotope test, and Braun, not being particularly familiar with the procedure, was confused about what Bosch did for him.

            In any case, I wonder if there is a date associated with that entry, that can be used to confirm that Bosch was paid during the period Braun was appealing or considering an appeal.

            BTW, is 20-30 grand the going price for professional consultation?
            Maybe if Bosch were going to testify as an expert at some hearing. But the information itself, judging from what was said in the linked article, is not worth that much.
            Last edited by Stolensingle; 02-05-2013, 08:47 PM.

            Comment


            • #96
              Originally posted by StanTheMan View Post
              I have it on good word that both the notes used by the author of the article AND the actual reports from the clinic with Braun's name listed were both stored in a refrigerator in a guy's basement over the weekend. Although the documents were perfectly sealed and arrived sealed after being "FedExed", they were unsupervised when in the basement.

              UNSUPERVISED people!


              Originally posted by Matthew C. View Post
              Braun has admitted giving $$$ to Bosch... as payments for consultation on how to appeal the previous failed drug test. Man, this lawyer is good.

              And I thought Braun and representatives were going to go for the clerical mistake angle next.http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/89...itive-ped-test
              If this falls through, I'm thinking he's going to have an evil twin.
              "It's like watching a Western. It's slow, so you can watch the chess moves. Nothing seems to happen, but when it goes down, it goes down big." - Howard Bryant

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              • #97
                Originally posted by Matthew C. View Post
                Braun has admitted giving $$$ to Bosch... as payments for consultation on how to appeal the previous failed drug test. Man, this lawyer is good.
                And I thought Braun and representatives were going to go for the clerical mistake angle next.

                BTW, is 20-30 grand the going price for professional consultation?

                http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/89...itive-ped-test
                We all know Braun used and failed... He might as well admit, apologize and re-offend like A-Rod, etc. With so much money on the line, why would any MLB'er NOT use PEDs?
                WAR? Prove it!

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                • #98
                  Originally posted by Los Bravos View Post


                  If this falls through, I'm thinking he's going to have an evil twin.
                  Despite my comments, which were more for grins than anything, his story is plausible. I am not into the witch-hunt game - but I am sure after being embarrassed by the failed test being overturned, MLB will be. Braun better hope he is guilt-free.
                  1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

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                  • #99
                    Originally posted by Zito75 View Post
                    We all know Braun used and failed... He might as well admit, apologize and re-offend like A-Rod, etc. With so much money on the line, why would any MLB'er NOT use PEDs?
                    Braun seemed like a good guy you would give the benefit of the doubt to, but after seeing what Lance Armstrong did no one can be believed at their word. You have to follow the evidence wherever it leads you, no matter how unplausible or unpleasant it may be

                    Comment


                    • He would probably get the beneft of my doubt (as he did initially last go around) but after his performance then, he gets zilch from me.

                      And I think you're definitely right about MLB.
                      "It's like watching a Western. It's slow, so you can watch the chess moves. Nothing seems to happen, but when it goes down, it goes down big." - Howard Bryant

                      3 6 10 21 29 31 35 41 42 44 47

                      Comment


                      • I think Braun is innocent and hope he'll be exonorated again, but I have to admit this doesn't "look good" - not that I'd stop rooting for him if he is proven guilty; I'd just be disappointed in him for lying about it.
                        My top 10 players:

                        1. Babe Ruth
                        2. Barry Bonds
                        3. Ty Cobb
                        4. Ted Williams
                        5. Willie Mays
                        6. Alex Rodriguez
                        7. Hank Aaron
                        8. Honus Wagner
                        9. Lou Gehrig
                        10. Mickey Mantle

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Matthew C. View Post
                          Despite my comments, which were more for grins than anything, his story is plausible. I am not into the witch-hunt game - but I am sure after being embarrassed by the failed test being overturned, MLB will be. Braun better hope he is guilt-free.
                          I agree the story is plausible, though if it's true, I still think he was ill-advised to get involved with Bosch. While the Biogenesis story is new to those of us on the outside, it sounds like a lot of MLB players knew what was going on there, and that one of them perhaps tipped off Braun that Bosch would know how to defend against a positive test.

                          I'm not a fan of Braun after he implied his positive test last year was because people were out to get him, but I will give him credit for addressing the problem immediately, and in person, not through lawyers or other handlers. A-Rod has yet to do that.

                          Comment


                          • Braun is a serial liar
                            who would fall for this crap?
                            1. The more I learn, the more convinced I am that many players are over-rated due to inflated stats from offensive home parks (and eras)
                            2. Strat-O-Matic Baseball Player, Collector and Hobbyist since 1969, visit my strat site: http://forums.delphiforums.com/GamersParadise
                            3. My table top gaming blog: http://cary333.blogspot.com/

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                            • Braun is articulate and must have a silver-tongued-devil for a lawyer. That makes for a good presentation, but not necessarily the truth. I think his case rests on the actual dates of the "consultation." And I know the money is absurd in baseball now, but I simply can't believe a "consulation" would run 20-30 grand. Really?

                              I guess more names will be showing up as the investigation continues. I'm hoping Yadier Molina is clean, but who knows anymore? Sad.
                              Born to an age where horror has become commonplace, where tragedy has, by its monotonous repetition, become a parody of sorrow, we need to fence off a few parks where humans try to be fair, where skill has some hope of reward, [and] where absurdity has a harder time than usual getting a ticket." -- Thomas Boswell, 1984

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by keystone View Post
                                Braun is articulate and must have a silver-tongued-devil for a lawyer. That makes for a good presentation, but not necessarily the truth. I think his case rests on the actual dates of the "consultation." And I know the money is absurd in baseball now, but I simply can't believe a "consulation" would run 20-30 grand. Really?

                                .
                                I am interested in knowing what kind of consultation all of those U o Miami pals of his were also getting. They did not have any specific PEDS linked to their names either.
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