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  • 1969 Rookie Draft

    --The rookie draft is now open. There will be no clock until June 6th so you've got plenty of time to think things over, make deals, etc. If there is an error in any of the traded picks please point it out as soon as possible. Errors not corrected before that pick is made won't be corrected nor compensation made. The player picked would simply move to the true owner of that slot.
    --Remember that the deadline for non-tenders/buy outs is your first selection in this draft. Once you make a pick you are committed to all the players still on your roster. The live portion of the draft is still scheduled for 8PM EST, June 6th. If we've managed to get through 2 rounds then you can all have your Friday night back and we'll just go on an 8 hour clock at that point.
    --All players who made their major league debut in 1969 are eligible for this draft. If you haven't already done some scouting then now is the time to get on that.
    --Expansion owners if you want to use your franchise tag on your first pick in this draft you need to do so before the end of the draft.


    Round 1
    1m or 12m depending on franchise tag choice
    1) Thunder: Thurman Munson (franchise player)
    2) Wranglers: Carlton Fisk (franchise player)
    3) Brawlers: Vida Blue
    4) Appletonia : Darrell Evans (franchise player)
    750K
    5) Angels from Gamblers: Bernie Carbo
    6) Diablos: Dave Cash
    7) Badgers: Gene Tenace
    8) Knights from Angels: Dave Roberts
    500K
    9) Hard Cider form Shoeless Joes: Ron Bloomberg
    10) Thunder from Redbirds: Dick Drago
    11) Cloverleafs : Jerry Ruess
    12) Knights from Skipjacks : Toby Harrah
    All players from here down are 250K
    13) Gamblers from Knights: Gary Gentry
    14) Cloverleafs from Hard Cider: Steve Garvey
    15) Hard Cider from Gold Sox: Wayne Garrett
    16) Hard Cider from Legends: Tom Bradley


    Round 2
    17) Cloverleafs from Thunder: Chuck Taylor
    18) Wranglers: Bill Buckner
    19) Brawlers: Clay Kirby
    20) Appletonia: Bill Lee
    21) Gamblers: Ken Tatum
    22) Skipjacks from Diablos: Barry Lersh
    23) Brawlers from Badgers: Carl Morton
    24) Angels: Ted Sixemore
    25) Appletonia from Shoeless Joes: Pedro Borbon
    26) Redbirds: BIll Russell
    27) Hard Cider from Cloverleafs: Bob Johnson
    28) Appletonia from Skipjacks: Oscar Gamble
    29) Knights: Ron Klimkowski
    30) Hard Cider: Billy Grabarkowitz
    31) Redbirds from Gold Sox: Steve Renko
    32) Skipjacks from Legends: Reggie Cleveland

    2a
    33) Redbirds (compensation pick): Tom Griffin

    Round 3
    34) Knights from Thunder: Lloyd Allen
    35) Wranglers: George Foster
    36) Badgers from Brawlers: Gene Garber
    37) Appletonia: Fred Kendall
    38) Legends from Gamblers: John Ellis
    39) Diablos: Al Fitzmorris
    40) Badgers: Billy Conigliaro
    41) Appletonia from Angels: Dick Woodson
    42) Hard Cider from Shoeless Joes: Jim Colborn
    43) Redbirds: Tom Timmerman
    44) Cloverleafs: Mike Kilkenny
    45) Skipjacks: Fred Scherman
    46) Knights: Bart Johnson
    47) Angels from Hard Cider: Ike Brown
    48) Shoeless Joes from Gold Sox: Marty Perez
    49) Hard Cider from Legends: Leron Lee

    Round 4
    50) Thunder: Jack DiLauro
    51) Wranglers: Bill Butler
    52) Cloverleafs from Brawlers (via Badgers): Coco Laboy
    53) Appletonia: Mike Garman
    54) Gamblers: Mike Nagy
    55) Diablos: Make up due
    56) Badgers: Bob Didier
    57) Legends from Angels: Bob Reynolds
    58) Shoeless Joes: Fran Healy
    59) Redbirds: Paul Doyle
    60) Cloverleafs: Lou Marone
    61) Skipjacks: Paul Edmuindson
    62) Knights: Bill Zepp
    63) Hard Cider: Rick Lamb
    64) Angels from Gold Sox: Ron Woods
    65) Legends: Jerry Morales

    Round 5
    66) Thunder: Sid O'Brien
    67) Wranglers: Cesar geronimo
    68) Badgers from Brawlers: Jerry Robertson
    69) Appletonia: Billy Wilson
    70) Gamblers: Steve Arlin
    71) Diablos: 2nd makeup due
    72) Badgers: Bill Burbach
    73) Angels: Steve Hovley
    74) Shoeless Joes: Joe Decker
    75) Redbirds: Phil Hennigan
    76) Cloverleafs: Mike Wegener
    77) Skipjacks: Marcel Lachman
    78) Knights: Jim Lyttle
    79) Hard Cider: Billy Brooks
    80) Gold Sox: Scipio Spinks
    81) Legends: Tom Hilgendorff

    6th round
    82) Thunder: Jerry Cram
    83) Wranglers: Gary Neibauer
    84) Gold Sox from Brawlers: Van Kelly
    --Thats all folks
    Last edited by leecemark; 06-13-2008, 05:00 PM.

  • #2
    Looks like I'm going to be a spectator for quite awhile. Sure hope no one takes the guy I'm looking at for pick #47!

    Comment


    • #3
      If my guy falls to #72, I'll be absolutely thrilled. Of course, I didn't see him falling to #9, so I traded it for a pick in a better year.

      Comment


      • #4
        If the player we want isn't available at the 5th pick, we may consider trading down. Something to keep in mind for someone interested in trading up at that time.
        My dream ballpark dimensions
        LF: 388 Feet...Height 37 Feet...LCF: 455 Feet...CF: 542 Feet...Height 35 Feet
        RCF: 471 Feet...RF: 400 Feet...Height 60 Feet
        Location....San Diego

        Comment


        • #5
          The Windy City Thunder draft .... Thurmon Munson!

          And he will be tagged as the franchise player.
          "I will calmly wait for my induction to the Baseball Hall of Fame."
          - Sammy Sosa

          "Get a comfy chair, Sammy, cause its gonna be a long wait."
          - Craig Ashley (AKA Windy City Fan)

          Comment


          • #6
            Definitely not who I would've picked there, but there is an argument for him.

            Comment


            • #7
              --Munson wouldn't have been my pick for the Knights, but he may have been if I was an expansion owner. One of the better catchers in the league from year 2 right up to the end. There are a few players who deliver more over the course of their careers, but in every case you'd be paying 12M for some developmental, injury or just plain bad years mixed in with the good ones.

              Comment


              • #8
                I wouldn't even consider him for the Gold Sox, what with a youngster named Bench who's taken over the catching spot. But that's the argument for him, and it's a fairly good one. He may be the best franchise player available this year when factoring in position (without that I'd take one other guy ahead of him as an expansion team).

                Comment


                • #9
                  --All players who made their major league debut in 1968 are eligible for this draft.
                  I think Mark meant 1969.

                  Mark, you may wish to edit your list to reflect that since our trade, the Hard Cider will have my first and third round picks this year. Since Mark has my 2nd rounder, it looks like the only pick I'll get out of the top 32 is the Gamblers 2nd rounder, which I have.

                  The Munson pick was a good one, but it wouldn't have been my top pick. Different perspective.
                  You see, you spend a good deal of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around all the time. J. Bouton

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Munson was a great pick if you're an expansion team and applying the franchise player. Meaty bat in an offensively weak position. Only other options here were to pay 12 million for pitching right off the bat which is absolutely crazy. If they play '69-75 you could get them for virtually nothing, six great seasons. You could then probably grab the same pitcher later for a little more but it would still be less than 12 million a year on average for a guy that works 1 out of 4 days, if that.

                    I think I know what the next two picks are going to be. One has a monster year but doesn't really play for the upcoming two, so they'd be absolutely worthless to apply a franchise tag towards but could really amp up any team in that season and pull off big playoff wins. The other is a consistently great pitcher for the next six years at least. I really doubt I'll be using my franchise tag, to be honest. It's a lot to pay for pitching. After six years, I could run out and buy someone else with a bigger year for a little more money, if not the same in some cases. Munson was the pick I was really worried about. If he were still around when my turn came, I'd have honestly spent at least a week sitting here trying to figure out what to do.
                    1955 1959 1963 1965 1981 1988

                    1889 1890 1899 1900 1916 1920
                    1941 1947 1949 1952 1953 1956
                    1966 1974 1977 1978


                    1983 1985 1995 2004 2008 2009
                    2013 2014


                    1996 2006

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                    • #11
                      --Honestly I'm not sure that the franchise tag is a great deal for anybody in this draft. There are several people who its reasonable for, but the have to be good for a really long time to pay you back for the overpay up front. If you keep the guy for the 6 cheap years until free agency you get a 20% advantage on resigning him as a free agent anyway. Unless the guy is going to be worth alot more than 12M (and if you look at the FA auctions you'll see the biggest stars getting 20 or more) then its tough to make your money back. OTOH you all have a huge amount of cap space and you can only sign so many free agents..... KW must be weighing these issues now

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by leecemark View Post
                        --Honestly I'm not sure that the franchise tag is a great deal for anybody in this draft. There are several people who its reasonable for, but the have to be good for a really long time to pay you back for the overpay up front. If you keep the guy for the 6 cheap years until free agency you get a 20% advantage on resigning him as a free agent anyway. Unless the guy is going to be worth alot more than 12M (and if you look at the FA auctions you'll see the biggest stars getting 20 or more) then its tough to make your money back. OTOH you all have a huge amount of cap space and you can only sign so many free agents..... KW must be weighing these issues now
                        Mark makes a very valid point here. If the player has a huge upside and a 15 to 20 year career, it would most certainly be worth applying the franchise tag. In the first six years, if the franchise tag is not used, you'd be paying the player only 13.5M for the entire six years. If the franchise tag is used, you're paying the same guy 72M over the six years, or 58.5M extra $$$. If you don't apply the tag, the player becomes a free agent, but you do get a 20% advantage to resign. You bid 20M for his next five years, meaning anyone else has to bid 24M at least (unlikely, but not unheard of). Using the dollars you've saved, the extra 8M per season that this player will cost you now ABOVE what he would've cost as a FP, times the five seasons you resign him for, is only 40M, meaning you're still 18.5M ahead after 11 seasons, and at this point most players will start to decline (although not so much now as back in the 70s).

                        If this were real life applying the FP tag would almost certainly be a mistake, because you could use those extra $$$ over the eleven years to invest in various ways. However, the long term picture is sort of ignored in the CKL, as you have to worry only about your cap from year to year. Applying the FP tag will hit your cap more the first six years, but save you cap space thereafter for likely as long as you keep the FP. And as expansion teams, you guys have the extra cap space up front, so were I in your shoes I would probably use it. But that's a determination each will have to make for themselves.
                        You see, you spend a good deal of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around all the time. J. Bouton

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by leecemark View Post
                          --Honestly I'm not sure that the franchise tag is a great deal for anybody in this draft. There are several people who its reasonable for, but the have to be good for a really long time to pay you back for the overpay up front. If you keep the guy for the 6 cheap years until free agency you get a 20% advantage on resigning him as a free agent anyway. Unless the guy is going to be worth alot more than 12M (and if you look at the FA auctions you'll see the biggest stars getting 20 or more) then its tough to make your money back. OTOH you all have a huge amount of cap space and you can only sign so many free agents..... KW must be weighing these issues now
                          I'm so weighing those issues....


                          Here's my analysis of the econmics of the Munson pick. You guys please double check my math and make sure I'm getting this right.
                          Basically to tag a guy you will overpay him to the tune of 64.5 M during his first six years under team control. Munson plays exactly five seasons after this 6th year before his tragic death. Even if he would have fetched 22-24 M on the free agent market, you still only get back 50-60 M of that original 64.5 M.

                          Never mind Lew answered the question in the previous post much clearer than my rambling....didn't see it until after I submitted my post....
                          Last edited by Hack_Miller; 05-26-2008, 06:26 AM. Reason: Redundant post...

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                          • #14
                            --The difference is you are overpaying the player in the years when you don't expect to compete (or the first couple of them anyway) and saving significant cap space later - when you can use it to pick up whatever pieces you need to complete your contendng teams. I'd say overpaying for years 1-2/3 are worth it for the savings in years 7-?. The years when you might regret it are 3/4-6 when having a cheap star could allow you to sign somebody else. It all depends on the player and how long you want to make sure you can keep him. Several guys from this draft are likely to fetch 20M deals when/if they hit the market in 6 years.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Mark makes a good point. IMO it's better to invest and overpay for a player in non-contending years only to have a bargain in the contending years when it could make a difference in a championship team. There are still at least 3 - 4 players who I could see bringing in 20-25 mill per season on the free agent market over the course of the next two free agent cycles. That is seasons 7-11 and 12-16. Thus making them worth the franchise player tag. The secret for the expansion teams is finding those 3 or 4 players who are still producing 15 seasons from now.
                              My dream ballpark dimensions
                              LF: 388 Feet...Height 37 Feet...LCF: 455 Feet...CF: 542 Feet...Height 35 Feet
                              RCF: 471 Feet...RF: 400 Feet...Height 60 Feet
                              Location....San Diego

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