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  • Originally posted by BlueBlood View Post
    Brawlers select P - Carl Morton via the Badgers.
    You've got to be kidding. You gave all that up for Carl Morton? What will you give me for Hank Aaron or Willie McCovey - or Tom Seaver, for that matter! I think a pair of first rounders and a second rounder will do it - for each!:cap:

    BTW, I presume you meant you were sending those players to the Badgers, not the Sockeye, since that's who confirmed the trade.
    You see, you spend a good deal of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around all the time. J. Bouton

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    • Originally posted by Sockeye View Post
      With the 24th overall pick Sockeye's Angels select....TED SIZEMORE!!
      And so begins the process of selecting players that could only be backups on any would-be contender. *sigh*
      1955 1959 1963 1965 1981 1988

      1889 1890 1899 1900 1916 1920
      1941 1947 1949 1952 1953 1956
      1966 1974 1977 1978


      1983 1985 1995 2004 2008 2009
      2013 2014


      1996 2006

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      • Originally posted by catcher24 View Post
        You've got to be kidding. You gave all that up for Carl Morton? What will you give me for Hank Aaron or Willie McCovey - or Tom Seaver, for that matter! I think a pair of first rounders and a second rounder will do it - for each!:cap:
        I see it as having traded two 3rd rounders for Carl Morton. 4th/5th round were a way to make the deal more enticing initially and for me to be fully out of needing to research the rest of the field for this draft (which I never did beyond pitchers and the big-name players).

        Losing those three players is no sweat because all of their contracts expire before '71 when things start to fall inline for me. Undoubtedly, it's a mutually beneficial trade that could only be pulled off when an expansion team can give up a lot when they're not a contender.
        1955 1959 1963 1965 1981 1988

        1889 1890 1899 1900 1916 1920
        1941 1947 1949 1952 1953 1956
        1966 1974 1977 1978


        1983 1985 1995 2004 2008 2009
        2013 2014


        1996 2006

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Sockeye View Post
          With the 24th overall pick Sockeye's Angels select....TED SIZEMORE!!
          Wondered when someone would grab him. He was the player I would've taken over Ken Tatum had I not traded the 21st pick back to Kyle. The OPS+ doesn't look all that great, but his OBP is above league average five of the next six years. He just doesn't have a lot of power, but would make a good leadoff hitter, or ninth slot hitter now that we have the DH.

          Very nice selection, Garry.
          You see, you spend a good deal of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around all the time. J. Bouton

          Comment


          • Undoubtedly, it's a mutually beneficial trade that could only be pulled off when an expansion team can give up a lot when they're not a contender.
            Well, you can still have Aaron or McCovey for a couple of first rounders!
            You see, you spend a good deal of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around all the time. J. Bouton

            Comment


            • Ha Ha, no dice. I'd never trade 1st or 2nd rounders. End of the 2nd round will at least get you a quality backup (or starter if your lineup is slightly lacking) or a pitcher with a big year. High-end 3rd round picks are tough to give up but I figure the value of Morton in his two great years (and possibly a reasonable fifth starter in another) plus a quality '70 that can fill in a hole for me next year is worth a bit more than two players from Round 3. Like I said, I can afford to lose now because I expected to do so. I traded meaningless players and draft picks to someone they did have meaning for while earning a pitcher that's absolutely beneficial.

              Now, if I had pulled off this trade three seasons from now, you'd have every right to have me committed.


              edit: Hmm. Starting to think I should franchise Vida Blue. Paying $12M for 69-70 is no big deal. The real hindrance is paying $12M in 71-74 when that could go towards a quality bat that could put me over the top. If he's franchised, I can keep him from 75-78 and then drop him in 79 when he starts to put a hole in my wallet. That doesn't even factor in the chance that I could have a young or weak team in 79 and be able to afford keeping him around for his quality 1980. If the usual rules were instituted for expansion owners, I could pay him dirt through '71 and then make the jump so at least I'd get my best year of starting pitching on the cheap and be able to chuck a ton of bats into the lineup. Hmm.

              On the other hand, those years of 75-78 could make for a free agent contract worth at least $25 million and burn a hole in someone's pocket which is a plus. Not to mention I can still utilize the hometown discount when I get near 75 and find I have the payroll for him (probably won't).
              Last edited by BlueBlood; 06-04-2008, 07:30 PM.
              1955 1959 1963 1965 1981 1988

              1889 1890 1899 1900 1916 1920
              1941 1947 1949 1952 1953 1956
              1966 1974 1977 1978


              1983 1985 1995 2004 2008 2009
              2013 2014


              1996 2006

              Comment


              • This is far and away the toughest pick we have to make this draft, trying to figure out who is most important to pick here.

                In the end, Athletic Club of Appletonia selects, with the 25th overall pick in the draft




                Now Batting for Pedro Borbon, Manny Mota ... Mota ... Mota...
                AL East Champions: 1981 1982
                AL Pennant: 1982
                NL Central Champions: 2011
                NL Wild Card: 2008

                "It was like coming this close to your dreams and then watching them brush past you like a stranger in a crowd. At the time you don't think much of it; you know, we just don't recognize the significant moments of our lives while they're happening. Back then I thought, 'Well, there'll be other days.' I didn't realize that that was the only day." - Moonlight Graham

                Comment


                • I. Heart. Airplane.

                  Borbon's a good test for the sim. He has a 158 ERA+ in 73 but a WHIP of 1.421.
                  1955 1959 1963 1965 1981 1988

                  1889 1890 1899 1900 1916 1920
                  1941 1947 1949 1952 1953 1956
                  1966 1974 1977 1978


                  1983 1985 1995 2004 2008 2009
                  2013 2014


                  1996 2006

                  Comment


                  • Borbon's an extremely interesting case. None of his years he is great in both WHIP and ERA+, but I'll take my chances. He's got a good arm for the 6 seasons I expect to be division champion.
                    AL East Champions: 1981 1982
                    AL Pennant: 1982
                    NL Central Champions: 2011
                    NL Wild Card: 2008

                    "It was like coming this close to your dreams and then watching them brush past you like a stranger in a crowd. At the time you don't think much of it; you know, we just don't recognize the significant moments of our lives while they're happening. Back then I thought, 'Well, there'll be other days.' I didn't realize that that was the only day." - Moonlight Graham

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by catcher24 View Post
                      Wondered when someone would grab him. He was the player I would've taken over Ken Tatum had I not traded the 21st pick back to Kyle. The OPS+ doesn't look all that great, but his OBP is above league average five of the next six years. He just doesn't have a lot of power, but would make a good leadoff hitter, or ninth slot hitter now that we have the DH.

                      Very nice selection, Garry.
                      It's scary how much we think alike Lew! He was 4th on my draft board. I've been trying to trade up to take him since the late 1st round as I thought for sure he would be chosen before now. Couldn't get anyone to trade down without asking for the farm. Sizemore is the only player in the entire draft that I would want to have on my team for each of his first 6 seasons. As you pointed out his power is next to nothing but his OBP+ is actually 102 or higher in each of his first 6 seasons. Not half bad considering his position. He's also a very good defensive second baseman. Can also fill in at SS, 3B, or OF if need be. If all goes according to plan he'll be our starting 2B and 9th place hitter for the next 6 seasons.

                      I'm also pretty sure he was the player Mark was thinking of a while back.
                      My dream ballpark dimensions
                      LF: 388 Feet...Height 37 Feet...LCF: 455 Feet...CF: 542 Feet...Height 35 Feet
                      RCF: 471 Feet...RF: 400 Feet...Height 60 Feet
                      Location....San Diego

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by catcher24 View Post
                        You've got to be kidding. You gave all that up for Carl Morton? What will you give me for Hank Aaron or Willie McCovey - or Tom Seaver, for that matter! I think a pair of first rounders and a second rounder will do it - for each!:cap:

                        BTW, I presume you meant you were sending those players to the Badgers, not the Sockeye, since that's who confirmed the trade.
                        Yeah it came as a shock to me when I found out it was Mr Morton that he was after and willing to offer all that for. He only has 1 season where his WHIP+ is over 100 (105 in 1973). Just slightly below average for most of his other seasons. Does give some decent innings though so that will help. I still had 23 pitchers ahead of him on my draft board (22 now that Borbon has been chosen)
                        My dream ballpark dimensions
                        LF: 388 Feet...Height 37 Feet...LCF: 455 Feet...CF: 542 Feet...Height 35 Feet
                        RCF: 471 Feet...RF: 400 Feet...Height 60 Feet
                        Location....San Diego

                        Comment


                        • How many starting pitchers did you have ahead of him though? And I'm shocked you would have that many in front of him. I'd take his quality starting years over Borbon's value as a reliever, etc. so maybe we just put a different premium on things. I researched through the starters with the most value for the next six years and he made the list (although he was the last that was positively worth it).

                          Ah, so you were talking about Renko in the PM, Sockeye. Gotcha. Yeah, nice 73 but I don't need to win now (69/70), he's useless to me in '71, a waste in '72. It comes down to WHIPs in 73/74 of 1.238 and 1.331 compared to Morton's 1.264 and 1.391. Renko has the slight edge here but Morton has back-to-back ERA+ seasons of 116 and 120 whereas Renko has a 136 followed by a 95. Renko gives up more home runs in less innings and that's where the ERA+ becomes useful over WHIP.

                          For the record, I'm willing to offer up a similar sort of trade to snag Renko. 3rd rounders and a couple of players I can let loose.
                          Last edited by BlueBlood; 06-04-2008, 08:37 PM.
                          1955 1959 1963 1965 1981 1988

                          1889 1890 1899 1900 1916 1920
                          1941 1947 1949 1952 1953 1956
                          1966 1974 1977 1978


                          1983 1985 1995 2004 2008 2009
                          2013 2014


                          1996 2006

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Sockeye View Post
                            It's scary how much we think alike Lew! He was 4th on my draft board. I've been trying to trade up to take him since the late 1st round as I thought for sure he would be chosen before now. Couldn't get anyone to trade down without asking for the farm. Sizemore is the only player in the entire draft that I would want to have on my team for each of his first 6 seasons. As you pointed out his power is next to nothing but his OBP+ is actually 102 or higher in each of his first 6 seasons. Not half bad considering his position. He's also a very good defensive second baseman. Can also fill in at SS, 3B, or OF if need be. If all goes according to plan he'll be our starting 2B and 9th place hitter for the next 6 seasons.

                            I'm also pretty sure he was the player Mark was thinking of a while back.
                            If it means anything, he was the other player I gave a "B" grade and I was thiiiiis close to taking him over Lersch. Seeing as you're so high on him I guess trade talks are out of the question. :candle:

                            For reference, a worthwhile fifteen players received an "A" or "B" this season from Beanie Bill; and, this draft is stocked in the middle with 24 "C" grades, which should take us through the middle of round three.
                            Last edited by J W; 06-04-2008, 09:07 PM.
                            http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploa...-showalter.gif

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Sockeye View Post
                              With the 24th overall pick Sockeye's Angels select....TED SIZEMORE!!
                              This is the player Mark was hinting at all along. I almost took him at the end of the 1st round.
                              "The numbers are what brought me here; as it appears they brought you."
                              - Danielle Rousseau

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by BlueBlood View Post
                                How many starting pitchers did you have ahead of him though? And I'm shocked you would have that many in front of him. I'd take his quality starting years over Borbon's value as a reliever, etc. so maybe we just put a different premium on things. I researched through the starters with the most value for the next six years and he made the list (although he was the last that was positively worth it).
                                Actually I revised my pitchers list a bit now. Morton moved up to 17th on the list of best remaining at that point in time. 6 starters (800+ BF in a season) still ahead of him on my draft board. Of course I only consider players by the number of seasons in which I would want to have them playing for my team. I'd only want to use Morton for 1 season (1973). There are still three pitchers remaining that I'd consider using for three seasons. Four others that I'd use for 2 seasons. 9 more that would give me one good season (all relievers) Of course when considering Morton's high number of batters faced during his one good season he could possibly move up a little more on the list depending on whether a person needs innings or not. We are pretty much set on innings for the next several years so quality is more important than quanity for us at least.

                                Oh and it's something of an unspoken rule around here but we usually don't mention players by name until after they have already been drafted.
                                My dream ballpark dimensions
                                LF: 388 Feet...Height 37 Feet...LCF: 455 Feet...CF: 542 Feet...Height 35 Feet
                                RCF: 471 Feet...RF: 400 Feet...Height 60 Feet
                                Location....San Diego

                                Comment

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