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1984 Hall of Fame Ballot

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  • 1984 Hall of Fame Ballot

    --I'm going to open this for discussion only for the first week before adding the poll. This is the best crop of new eligibles we've ever had, which probably doesn't bode well for the holdovers - all of whom were below 50% last year when only Stargell got the nod. They can use all the support their fans can muster this time around.
    --The new Guys;
    --Johnny Bench: easily the best catcher in CKL history. The career Gold Sox was a 2 time MVP and 1st team catcher on the CKL team of the 70s.
    --Ferguson Jenkins: easily the best pitcher in CKL history. The career Legend is the only 300 game winner in CKL history and made the All decade team in both the 60s and 70s.
    --Gaylord Perry: Two time CYA winner and 3rd all time in wins.
    --Carl Yastrzremski: One of two men to reach 3,000 hits and in the top 3 in a dozen other offensive categories. 1st team LF on the All 70s team.
    --The Returnees:
    --Dick McAuliffe: career Knight and 2nd to Willie Mays in a majority of the team's leaderboards. Best hitting IF of the 60s (1st team 2B on the 60s team).
    --Norm Cash: 2nd in many Hard Cider offensive lists and 2nd in 1B games in CKL history. 2nd team 1B on All 60s team.
    --Bob Gibson: 200 game winner who ranks high in IP and K's on the CKL leaderboards.
    --Luis Tiant: 200 game winner who won a CYA and 2nd another time.
    --Reggie Smith: piled up some outstanding rate stats over a long career, but doesn't have an milestone numbers and never factored in MVP voting.

  • #2
    --I'll be voting for all 4 new guys and its hard for me to imagine any of them won't make it. I don't know that I'll be voting for any of the holdovers. I've been McAuliffe's #1 supporter every since he hit the ballot, but that is starting to feel like just a homer vote now. He was the best hitting middle If of the 60s, but that was a pretty weak field. He ranks no better than 4th all time at 2B now - well behind Morgan, Carew and Grich IMO. If he'd stuck at SS longer I could still support him, but he was never really a good defender there.
    --Cash I've gone back and forth on, but he doesn't look so good in this crowd. Gibson I never supported (he actually fell off the ballot and then came back with a write in campaign). Tiant I considered closely, but didn't pull the trigger on last year and the median for Hall of Famer pitchers is going up with Jenkins and Perry heading in. Smith I didn't vote for last year and again this is not the year to bump up a marginal candidate.

    Comment


    • #3
      When are we doing this again?

      I'll be liberally voting for sure; this is a stacked ballot. The newcomers are four real life HOFers that very much lived up to their reputation in DMCKL -- one, Fergie Jenkins, surpassed them, which is close to amazing considering our condensed league.

      I'm still voting for Cash and really there's a good chance I'll vote for every single one of these guys. I think top to bottom this is the best ballot we've seen to date.
      http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploa...-showalter.gif

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      • #4
        --Sorry I totally forgot about this. Would still like to see a little more discussion about these guys before opening the poll, but will start it by the end of the week either way.

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        • #5
          I will be voting for the 4 newcomers and will continue to vote for Cash and McAuliffe. Would have to be convinced for Gibson & Tiant still.

          Comment


          • #6
            I'll be voting for the four newcomers (as I suspect everyone will) but I'll be continuing to vote for Cash, McAuliffe, Gibson, and Tiant. I don't see why the quality of newcomers would make someone not vote for the returnees. There is plenty of room on the stage for all of them.

            I don't see much that makes Cash a worse (or better candidate) than HOFers Al Kaline and Jimmy Wynn. The three of them would make a nice cut off point I think.

            McAuliffe has been surpassed by others second basemen, but he was the best in his day and had a legitimat HOF peak. There isn't a lot of depth to his career, but that's partly due to the logjam of talent the Knights had on the infield back in the 60s. I'll continue to vote for him.

            Luis Tiant is Juan Marichal part two in my book. Marichal was a little more steady and had more of a classic bell curve arch to his career, but Tiant was probably better at his peak and bounced back from a serious injury to put together a strong second half to his career. I posted this in the 83 HOF voting thread and I think it warrants repeating here so people see it ...

            Was looking over Tiant again and I thought this might be worth mentioning. If you give any extra credit towards being a "winner", Tiant has that in spades. His clubs made the postseason 8 times (66-68 Legends, 74 Diablos, 75-77 Thunder, 79 Thunder) and on several of those clubs he was the ace pitcher and was always a number two or three starter if he wasn't the ace. Six of those clubs won their division. Two of them won the pennant and one was a championship club. He's also got a Cy Young award and a third place finish in Cy Young voting. So at his peak, he was a guy who was among the best pitchers in the game and was seen as a front line starter for competitive clubs. (Also, he was on the penant winning 80 Thunder team, but only had a handful of starts as a injury replacement/late season call up, so I didn't include them on the list of post season clubs he was on, since he played a pretty minor role for the 80 Thunder)
            Gibson is probably the weakest candidate, as I see him just slightly behind Marichal and Tiant. He still has my support though. He was a bit of compiler, but those counting stats are still holding up a decade after he retired. And its not like he wasn't a legit ace for a lot of seasons. He may not have had a lot of seasons as an elite top level pitcher, but he was the anchor of the Shoeless Joes staff for a long time. He wasn't a mid rotation schlub who just hung around forever.
            "I will calmly wait for my induction to the Baseball Hall of Fame."
            - Sammy Sosa

            "Get a comfy chair, Sammy, cause its gonna be a long wait."
            - Craig Ashley (AKA Windy City Fan)

            Comment


            • #7
              I'll be voting for the four newcomers (as I suspect everyone will) but I'll be continuing to vote for Cash, McAuliffe, Gibson, and Tiant. I don't see why the quality of newcomers would make someone not vote for the returnees. There is plenty of room on the stage for all of them.

              I don't see much that makes Cash a worse (or better candidate) than HOFers Al Kaline and Jimmy Wynn. The three of them would make a nice cut off point I think.

              McAuliffe has been surpassed by others second basemen, but he was the best in his day and had a legitimat HOF peak. There isn't a lot of depth to his career, but that's partly due to the logjam of talent the Knights had on the infield back in the 60s. I'll continue to vote for him.

              Luis Tiant is Juan Marichal part two in my book. Marichal was a little more steady and had more of a classic bell curve arch to his career, but Tiant was probably better at his peak and bounced back from a serious injury to put together a strong second half to his career. I posted this in the 83 HOF voting thread and I think it warrants repeating here so people see it ...

              Was looking over Tiant again and I thought this might be worth mentioning. If you give any extra credit towards being a "winner", Tiant has that in spades. His clubs made the postseason 8 times (66-68 Legends, 74 Diablos, 75-77 Thunder, 79 Thunder) and on several of those clubs he was the ace pitcher and was always a number two or three starter if he wasn't the ace. Six of those clubs won their division. Two of them won the pennant and one was a championship club. He's also got a Cy Young award and a third place finish in Cy Young voting. So at his peak, he was a guy who was among the best pitchers in the game and was seen as a front line starter for competitive clubs. (Also, he was on the penant winning 80 Thunder team, but only had a handful of starts as a injury replacement/late season call up, so I didn't include them on the list of post season clubs he was on, since he played a pretty minor role for the 80 Thunder)
              Gibson is probably the weakest candidate, as I see him just slightly behind Marichal and Tiant. He still has my support though. He was a bit of compiler, but those counting stats are still holding up a decade after he retired. And its not like he wasn't a legit ace for a lot of seasons. He may not have had a lot of seasons as an elite top level pitcher, but he was the anchor of the Shoeless Joes staff for a long time. He wasn't a mid rotation schlub who just hung around forever.
              "I will calmly wait for my induction to the Baseball Hall of Fame."
              - Sammy Sosa

              "Get a comfy chair, Sammy, cause its gonna be a long wait."
              - Craig Ashley (AKA Windy City Fan)

              Comment


              • #8
                I plan on voting for Tiant and Gibson - if only to have them up for consideration again next year. I think that being in the top 1 percent of pitchers to have played in our league merits serious consideration, even if their numbers are below real-life thresholds that we look for in hall of famers.
                Baseball statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything. ~Toby Harrah

                Comment


                • #9
                  Counting numbers will generally be lower I think, because players in this league aren't allowed to rack up counting stats in substandard seasons. Generally, if you're not at least league average, you won't see much playing time in CKL, so a lot of players don't get the same amount of overall playing time I think. Plus a more compressed league, makes it harder for stars to stand out. 200 wins in CKL is like 250 in RL, I'd say.
                  "I will calmly wait for my induction to the Baseball Hall of Fame."
                  - Sammy Sosa

                  "Get a comfy chair, Sammy, cause its gonna be a long wait."
                  - Craig Ashley (AKA Windy City Fan)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I just realized Gene Tenance retired in 83. Did he not make the 70s team? And if not, I'd still like to see his stats. I might start a write in campaign. Tenance's biggest knock in RL was that he was a part-time catcher. That wasn't true in CKL.
                    "I will calmly wait for my induction to the Baseball Hall of Fame."
                    - Sammy Sosa

                    "Get a comfy chair, Sammy, cause its gonna be a long wait."
                    - Craig Ashley (AKA Windy City Fan)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      --Well this thread was mostly lost due to the BBF reboot, but all 4 newcomers were unanimous choices. Cash, McAuliffe, Gibson and Tiant received enough votes to return to next years ballot. Reggie Smith did not. So congratulations to;
                      Fergie Jenkins
                      Gaylord Perry
                      Carl Yastrzemski
                      Johnny Bench
                      --Unfortunately I had to replace my computer shortly after the end of the 1983 season. I have not rebuilt my encyclopedia yet and don't have updated career stats to post for anyone. They are available at Lew's site or perhaps another DMB owner who does have an updated encyclopedia could post those stats (for Tenace or anyone else who may be of interest).

                      Comment

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