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Gary Sheffield for HOF?

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  • Originally posted by Chadwick View Post
    Crowded ballot plus PED taint equals little support.

    Sheffield will fall off the ballot after the 2024 BBWAA election. The only way his support increases substantially is if/when the BBWAA elects Bonds. Assuming that happens in 2022, Sheff would have two years to catapult up the list. It's not going to happen. The BBWAA won't elect Bonds and Sheffield doesn't have the argument Bonds has anyway so he's not guaranteed to get the same level of support, even with Bonds in.

    Great hitter. Deserving Hall of Famer. Don't hold your breath waiting for the electorate to put him in, though.
    But why must Sheffield be grouped with Bonds? I think Sheffield is closer to Pudge Rodriguez (who got in 1st ballot). Like Pudge, Sheffield has a thin cloud of steroid rumors surrounding his career; it’s not the pervasive fog that surrounds the careers of Bonds, McGwire, Palmeiro, and Sosa.

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    • Originally posted by redban View Post

      But why must Sheffield be grouped with Bonds? I think Sheffield is closer to Pudge Rodriguez (who got in 1st ballot). Like Pudge, Sheffield has a thin cloud of steroid rumors surrounding his career; it’s not the pervasive fog that surrounds the careers of Bonds, McGwire, Palmeiro, and Sosa.
      Why? Because of the pervasive self-righteousness of the "Never!" faction on PEDs who go through life in denial of PEDs being a condition of the ERA and not something just a few used.
      "I do not care if half the league strikes. Those who do it will encounter quick retribution. All will be suspended and I don't care if it wrecks the National League for five years. This is the United States of America and one citizen has as much right to play as another. The National League will go down the line with Robinson whatever the consequences. You will find if you go through with your intention that you have been guilty of complete madness."

      NL President Ford Frick, 1947

      Comment


      • Originally posted by redban View Post

        But why must Sheffield be grouped with Bonds? I think Sheffield is closer to Pudge Rodriguez (who got in 1st ballot). Like Pudge, Sheffield has a thin cloud of steroid rumors surrounding his career; it’s not the pervasive fog that surrounds the careers of Bonds, McGwire, Palmeiro, and Sosa.
        That is just simply not true. Sheffield is all over Game of Shadows. Greg Anderson kept meticulous records and Sheff's use of HGH, testosterone and BALCO's "cream" and "clear" designer steroids is established fact.
        3 6 10 21 29 31 35 41 42 44 47

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        • Originally posted by Fuzzy Bear View Post

          Why? Because of the pervasive self-righteousness of the "Never!" faction on PEDs who go through life in denial of PEDs being a condition of the ERA and not something just a few used.
          Literally every single sports league in the world except the NFL strips records and titles from PED users. The people that don't want to punish PED users are the outlier. Not the other way around.
          "No matter how great you were once upon a time — the years go by, and men forget,” - W. A. Phelon in Baseball Magazine in 1915. “Ross Barnes, forty years ago, was as great as Cobb or Wagner ever dared to be. Had scores been kept then as now, he would have seemed incomparably marvelous.”

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          • Originally posted by bluesky5 View Post

            Literally every single sports league in the world except the NFL strips records and titles from PED users. The people that don't want to punish PED users are the outlier. Not the other way around.
            Baseball doesn't, either.
            Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
            Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
            A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

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            • Originally posted by jalbright View Post

              Baseball doesn't, either.
              And yet Bonds, Clemens, Sosa, McGwire, etc. aren't in the HoF.
              "No matter how great you were once upon a time — the years go by, and men forget,” - W. A. Phelon in Baseball Magazine in 1915. “Ross Barnes, forty years ago, was as great as Cobb or Wagner ever dared to be. Had scores been kept then as now, he would have seemed incomparably marvelous.”

              Comment


              • Originally posted by bluesky5 View Post

                And yet Bonds, Clemens, Sosa, McGwire, etc. aren't in the HoF.
                Some users are, and it's certainly not an official ban. Moreover, unlike your statement, their records, awards and titles all stand. At present, a positive test means a suspension, and it isn't until you have three you're gone, much like the NFL
                Last edited by jalbright; 02-10-2019, 11:48 AM.
                Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by jalbright View Post

                  Some users are, and it's certainly not an official ban. Moreover, unlike your statement, their records, awards and titles all stand. At present, a positive test means a suspension, and it isn't until you have three you're gone, much like the NFL
                  What PED users are in the HoF?
                  "No matter how great you were once upon a time — the years go by, and men forget,” - W. A. Phelon in Baseball Magazine in 1915. “Ross Barnes, forty years ago, was as great as Cobb or Wagner ever dared to be. Had scores been kept then as now, he would have seemed incomparably marvelous.”

                  Comment


                  • There have been allegations against I-Rod by Canseco that he personally give I-Rod injections. There have been allegations of varying strenght against Nolan Ryan, Bagwell, Piazza, amd I'm sure others I've forgotten. Are you betting Ortiz and his postiive test won't make it when he gets his chance? Who knows how many haven't had anything surface against them? It seems exceptionally naive to think no one who used PEDs for a competitive advantage is in the Hall. and it's only going to be more certain there are users who have been inducted with future inductions, unless they shut down taking everyone.
                    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by jalbright View Post
                      There have been allegations against I-Rod by Canseco that he personally give I-Rod injections. There have been allegations of varying strenght against Nolan Ryan, Bagwell, Piazza, amd I'm sure others I've forgotten. Are you betting Ortiz and his postiive test won't make it when he gets his chance? Who knows how many haven't had anything surface against them? It seems exceptionally naive to think no one who used PEDs for a competitive advantage is in the Hall. and it's only going to be more certain there are users who have been inducted with future inductions, unless they shut down taking everyone.
                      Again, it's not so simple that we can just divide guys into 'users' and 'non users'. There are a lot of shades of gray involved.

                      Each case has to be taken separately, even among the obvious guys like A-rod, Bonds etc.

                      Comment


                      • Also, the Hall has honored guys like LaRussa, who had a lot of juicers on his teams and received benefits from it, and Selig, who rode the McGwire and Sosa single season HR chase as baseball's means of overcoming the effects of the strike and propelling it to the prosperity for which Selig is enshrined. At best, Selig, LaRussa were anything but innocents in this. They may well have been no more than enablers who turned a blind eye so they could reap the benefits of juicing. However, they were guys who could have taken meaningful stands against the stuff and made a difference, but chose not to.
                        Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                        Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                        A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by bluesky5 View Post

                          Literally every single sports league in the world except the NFL strips records and titles from PED users. The people that don't want to punish PED users are the outlier. Not the other way around.
                          You mean the "users" that someone wrote a book about? Or had a report written about them. The PED users that you refer to were NEVER sanctioned by MLB. huge difference.

                          it's a retroactive kangaroo court.

                          Nonetheless, there are at least a dozen roiders in the hall. And roid managers, and a roid commissioner. It's time to end all of this nonsense.
                          This week's Giant

                          #5 in games played as a Giant with 1721 , Bill Terry

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by JR Hart View Post

                            You mean the "users" that someone wrote a book about? Or had a report written about them. The PED users that you refer to were NEVER sanctioned by MLB. huge difference.

                            it's a retroactive kangaroo court.

                            Nonetheless, there are at least a dozen roiders in the hall. And roid managers, and a roid commissioner. It's time to end all of this nonsense.
                            There are probably pedophiles, communists and homosexuals in the HoF too if you'd care to make any more outrageous accusations while you're at it.

                            "No matter how great you were once upon a time — the years go by, and men forget,” - W. A. Phelon in Baseball Magazine in 1915. “Ross Barnes, forty years ago, was as great as Cobb or Wagner ever dared to be. Had scores been kept then as now, he would have seemed incomparably marvelous.”

                            Comment


                            • HOF roiders

                              very likely
                              Jeff Bagwell
                              Mike Piazza
                              Pudge Rodriquez
                              Nolan Ryan
                              Kirby Puckett
                              Dennis Eckersley
                              Rickey Henderson

                              likely
                              Randy Johnson
                              Craig Biggio

                              Wouldn't surprise me
                              Paul Molitor
                              Chipper Jones
                              Barry Larkin
                              Roberto Alomar


                              This week's Giant

                              #5 in games played as a Giant with 1721 , Bill Terry

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by JR Hart View Post
                                HOF roiders

                                very likely
                                Jeff Bagwell
                                Mike Piazza
                                Pudge Rodriquez
                                Nolan Ryan
                                Kirby Puckett
                                Dennis Eckersley
                                Rickey Henderson

                                likely
                                Randy Johnson
                                Craig Biggio

                                Wouldn't surprise me
                                Paul Molitor
                                Chipper Jones
                                Barry Larkin
                                Roberto Alomar

                                Racist Hall of Famers...

                                Very likely: Tony LaRussa, Frank Thomas, Dennis Eckersley, Pedro Martinez, Bruce Sutter, Robin Yount

                                Likely: Dave Winfield, Cal Ripken Jr., Greg Maddux, Tom Glavine, John Smoltz,

                                Wouldn't surprise me: Bobby Cox, Eddie Murray, Earl Weaver, Hank Aaron, Jackie Robinson
                                "No matter how great you were once upon a time — the years go by, and men forget,” - W. A. Phelon in Baseball Magazine in 1915. “Ross Barnes, forty years ago, was as great as Cobb or Wagner ever dared to be. Had scores been kept then as now, he would have seemed incomparably marvelous.”

                                Comment

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