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  • Joe Torre

    As a player, Joe Torre was probably a borderline case for the Hall. But if you take his career managing the Yankees, would he warrant serious consideration?
    How does the Veterans Committee handle someone like Torre? Obviously, his eligibility as a player expired a few years ago. But would he also have to be retired from managing for the requisite to be considered for Cooperstown?
    And would his mediocrity as a manager with the Braves, Cards and Mets further hurt his chances?
    Also, has there ever been someone before who was enshrined due to the combination of their playing/managing careers?

  • #2
    Sorry, I meant to say "retired for the requisite 5 years..."

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    • #3
      There are some Hall of Fame managers that had fine playing careers, but I think people are in either as a manager or a player, but not both. Torre will very likely be put in as a manager, but I'm sure his distinguished playing career will be noted as well.

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      • #4
        Chance was pretty much shrined as both a player and manager. Same with Fred Clarke. I don't see Torre really going in as a player but there is no way he won't go in as a manager.

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        • #5
          I would guess that the committee would only consider combining player and manager qualifications if the candidate was both a player and a manager at the same time. If you didn't play and manage, both at the same time, then you could only be inducted as a player OR a manager, not both.
          ?

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          • #6
            [QUOTE=I don't see Torre really going in as a player but there is no way he won't go in as a manager.[/QUOTE]

            I'm not so sure about that. Yes, he's had great success with the Yankees, but remember he's been coaching since 1977/1978 with the Mets. He won a division title with Atlanta one year, but aside from that his managing performance was spotty (before the Yanks, that is).

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Gooch
              I'm not so sure about that. Yes, he's had great success with the Yankees, but remember he's been coaching since 1977/1978 with the Mets. He won a division title with Atlanta one year, but aside from that his managing performance was spotty (before the Yanks, that is).
              The same could be said Stengal, Bucky Harris and Connie Mack. Alot of hall of fame managers don't have pretty winning percentages

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              • #8
                Including this season's win total, Torre would only need about 30 wins in 2006 to move into the top 10 list of career managerial victories passing Casey Stengal, Gene Mauch, and Bill McKechnie.
                ?

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                • #9
                  Then the current Yankees have FIVE likely Hall of Famers in Torre, Jeter, A-Rod, Mariano, and Sheffield.

                  Maybe six if Bernie gets in.

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                  • #10
                    Joe Torre

                    I used to have Torre among that first group of players that are good enough to sit on the lawn at Cooperstown, but not be invited inside. Lately, however, I've changed my stance. He was a tremendous offensive catcher for almost a decade, probably among the very best offensive catchers ever, and he did win a Gold Glove. Then he moved and became a very good thirdbasemen for a few years, winning an MVP and a batting title. In total, he made 10 All-Star appearances. Given the two positions he excelled at, I think he belongs in the Hall.

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                    • #11
                      I think he'll get in, but not just because of his playing career. He's strong in both categories and I think that'll be huge when considering him for the Hall.

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                      • #12
                        One of those rare individuals whose playing and managing careers were Hall-worthy. Torre will no doubt be elected on the first Composite Ballot by the Veterans Committee after his retirement. Hence we could be eligible (and, I believe, elected) as early as 2011. In fact, I believe Torre will not be elected as a player in 2007 or 2009, but will be elected as a manager in 2011.

                        NOTE: Even if Torre retired after next season - 2006 - it would not be early enough to include him on the 2007 ballot, as the Hall requires a minimum wait of 6 months for retired contributors over the age of 65.
                        "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
                        "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
                        "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
                        "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

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                        • #13
                          I think Torre was a great player, but i'll have to research more to determine my opinion.

                          I do, however, think its funny that torre holds the record for hitting into the most double plays
                          Yankees Chick
                          News, Rumors, and Opinions on the Bronx Bombers from a Brunette Babe

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                          • #14
                            He certainly fits the top 20 or so at his position criteria.
                            THE REVOLUTION WILL NOT COME WITH A SCORECARD

                            In the avy: AZ - Doe or Die

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                            • #15
                              He's certainly close as a player only. If he hadn't played so much at first (787 defensive games), I'd see him as a player worthy of induction. To me, though, he wasn't a HOF caliber first baseman. Then the question becomes is the combination of a HOF caliber catcher-third baseman 64% of the time and a non-HOF caliber first baseman 36% of the time equal HOF caliber overall (please note I used baseball-reference.com's defensive games, and counted his 2 games in the outfield in the "first base" total. Also, I have rounded off the numbers to whole percentages rather than 35.7% or whatever)? My own feeling is he's enough under the bar at first base to drag him just below the in/out line overall solely on his performance as a player. If you put the in/out lines just a little lower than I do and/or weigh peak more heavily versus career than I do, you might well come up with a different answer. As a manager, he deserves the honor IMO, and that's the way I'd put him in.

                              Jim Albright
                              Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                              Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                              A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

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