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The Hall of Mistakes, Election #14

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  • The Hall of Mistakes, Election #14

    The Hall of Fame is never going to identify its mistakes, so it’s up to us. This is the 14th in a series of polls to set up a new wing in the Coop. We want to isolate the players that don’t reach the HOF’s minimum standards, so that they will not be used as examples for arguing that a similar player deserves enshrinement. We’ll elect one mistake at a time. These are our first 13 dishonorees, by position:

    C - Rick Ferrell
    1B - George Kelly
    2B - none
    3B - Fred Lindstrom
    SS - Travis Jackson
    LF - Chick Hafey
    CF - Lloyd Waner, Earle Combs
    RF - Tommy McCarthy, Ross Youngs
    P - Rube Marquard, Jesse Haines, Chief Bender, Herb Pennock

    Over on the History forum they’re running polls using the MVP voting format, voting for 10 guys in rank order, with points assigned 12,9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1. Let’s use that method. Your worst hall of fame player will be voted #1, the next worst #2, down to your 10th worst. The player with the most total points at the end of the poll (probably about a week) will hereafter be designated as a Mistake. We will follow with another thread to identify the next worst player, and so on. We’ll continue until we’ve voted out 15% of the Coop’s 212 players (32 guys; this could increase to 33 if at least five players are elected in 2006).

    Players classified by the HOF as Pioneers/Managers/Executives/Umpires (e.g., Candy Cummings) are not eligible for this election. However, be aware that the 17 Negro league players are included - they are fair game for labeling as Mistakes.

    We will use the Hall’s criteria in deciding player’s merit. That means you should take into account the sum total of the man’s contributions both on and off the field. For example, Tommy McCarthy is probably the worst player in the Hall stat-wise. However, he was elected as much for being an innovator, a pioneer and a winning player as he was for his production as a player.

    Or Hughie Jennings. He has one of the shortest playing careers in the Hall. However, he was also a successful manager in addition to being the central player on a team often cited as the best of the 19th century. Frank Chance has a similar profile.

    So, voters will have to decide how much weight to give non-playing accomplishments. It should be interesting, as voters will need to consider more than just stats.

    A couple threads in this forum suggest candidates for voting out. The “Upper/Lower Hall of Fame Vote” thread has my list of who I think are the worst 76 players in the Hall. The poll under “Veterans Committee Mistakes” has the 20 worst players being Haines, T.Jackson, Lindstrom, Chesbro, Combs, Marquard, L. Waner, R. Ferrell, Hafey, Youngs, Hooper, G.Kelly, Tinker, Bottomley, Evers, Bancroft, Schoendienst, Rizzuto, Schalk and Lazzeri. There is also some good discussion from last spring in the thread “Weak HOFers”. Finally, in the thread "5 Tier HOF (v. 2) - The Admirable & Borderline" from 2003, the bottom 25 were identified (alphabetically) as Bancroft, Bottomley, Bresnahan, Chance, Chesbro, Combs, Evers, Ferrell, Hafey, Haines, Hoyt, T.Jackson, G.Kelly, Lindstrom, Maranville, Marquard, Mazeroski, McCarthy, Pennock, Rizzuto, Schalk, Schoendienst, Tinker, L.Waner, and Youngs.

    With Lindstrom, Kelly, McCarthy, Marquard, Haines, Waner, T. Jackson, Ferrell, Youngs, Bender, Hafey, Pennock and Combs no longer eligible, here's my list of the next ten to vote out:

    1.Chesbro
    2.Tinker
    3.Schalk
    4.Kell G
    5.Hoyt W
    6.Johnson J
    7.Bottomley
    8.Willis
    9.Manush
    10.Hooper
    Si quaeris peninsulam amoenam, circumspice.

    Comprehensive Reform for the Veterans Committee -- Fixing the Hall continued.

  • #2
    1.Jack Chesbro
    2.Waite Hoyt
    3.Joe Tinker
    4.Harry Hooper
    5.Dave Bancroft
    6.Jim Bottomley
    7.Red Schoendienst
    8.Phil Rizzuto
    9.Rollie Fingers
    10.Ray Schalk

    Comment


    • #3
      1. Schalk
      2. Chesbro
      3. Schoendienst
      4. Fingers
      6. Perez, Tony
      6. Hoyt
      7. Johnson, J.
      8. Bottomley
      9. Joe Tinker
      10. Rizzuto
      Buck O'Neil: The Monarch of Baseball

      Comment


      • #4
        1.Judy Johnson
        2.Eppa Rixey
        3.Joe Tinker
        4.Vic Willis
        5.Jack Chesbro
        6.Red Schoendienst
        7.Ray Schalk
        8.Waite Hoyt
        9.Heinie Manush
        10.George Kell

        Comment


        • #5
          I'll close this round tomorrow night. Two voters from the last election that we hope to hear from are leecemark and pretorius. El Halo is another who usually checks in. Of course, anyone new is always welcome to post a ballot, too.

          We'll again add in the consensus ballot from last election's finish. That ballot looks like this:
          1.Hoyt
          2.Chesbro
          3.Schalk
          4.Tinker
          5.Johnson J
          6.Bottomley
          7.Hooper
          8.Schoendienst
          9.Bancroft
          10.Fingers
          Si quaeris peninsulam amoenam, circumspice.

          Comprehensive Reform for the Veterans Committee -- Fixing the Hall continued.

          Comment


          • #6
            1) J. Johnson
            2) Chesbro
            3) Hoyt
            4) Schalk
            5) Bottomley
            6) Schoendienst
            7) Tinker
            8) Lombardi
            9) Bancroft
            10) Hooper

            Comment


            • #7
              Results, Election #13

              Condolences to Jack Chesbro, who becomes the 14th member of the Hall of Mistakes. Happy Jack was elected by the largest margin since Haines in election #5. He joins Fred Lindstrom, George Kelly, Tommy McCarthy, Rube Marquard, Jesse Haines, Lloyd Waner, Travis Jackson, Rick Ferrell, Ross Youngs, Chief Bender, Chick Hafey, Herb Pennock and Earle Combs. Waite Hoyt claimed the runnerup spot for the third straight election.

              Here are the full results for the 14th election:
              Code:
              Pts	1st	Bal	Top 10 Players
              57	2	6	Jack Chesbro
              43	1	6	Waite Hoyt
              40	1	6	Ray Schalk
              39	2	5	Judy Johnson
              38	0	6	Joe Tinker
              25	0	5	Red Schoendienst
              23	0	5	Jim Bottomley
              13	0	4	Harry Hooper
              10	0	3	Rollie Fingers
              10	0	3	Dave Bancroft
              			the rest
              10	0	2	Willis
              9	0	1	Rixey
              8	0	2	Kell
              6	0	1	Perez
              4	0	2	Rizzuto
              4	0	2	Manush
              3	0	1	Lombardi
              Si quaeris peninsulam amoenam, circumspice.

              Comprehensive Reform for the Veterans Committee -- Fixing the Hall continued.

              Comment

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