Wrong to Put Ryno in before Tramm

[NShlain]

Let me nake one thing clear, the hall of fame is a joke. For them to put Ryne Sandberg in the hall of fame before Alan Trammell is the dumbest thing I've ever heard besides the city of Detroit reelecting Kwame Kilpatrick. IDIOTS!

Tramm has way more walks and way less K's. BB-Tramm-850-Ryno-761

K's R-1260 T-874 Tramm also played 4 more seasons, imagine is Ryno played those 4 extras, he may be over 1500 k's.

Ryno has about 100 more HR's, they are the same in BA w/ .285, Tramm leads in OBP and Ryno leads in SLG.

Both are over 2000 hits. Tramm has more doubles and Ryno has more triples.

Tramm played the most demanding position in baseball besides catcher, SS. Tramm was WS MVP. 4 gold gloves and 3 silver sluggers. 2nd in runs created in 87. Hit 364 in playoffs.

Re-freaking-diculus that Tramms not in before Ryno. I think Ryno should be in, but not before Tramm.
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[Honus Wagner Rules]

Let me nake one thing clear, the hall of fame is a joke. For them to put Ryne Sandberg in the hall of fame before Alan Trammell is the dumbest thing I've ever heard besides the city of Detroit reelecting Kwame Kilpatrick. IDIOTS!

Tramm has way more walks and way less K's. BB-Tramm-850-Ryno-761

K's R-1260 T-874 Tramm also played 4 more seasons, imagine is Ryno played those 4 extras, he may be over 1500 k's.

So wouldn't Ryno blow by Trammell in walks if you give him four more seasons?

Ryno has about 100 more HR's, they are the same in BA w/ .285, Tramm leads in OBP and Ryno leads in SLG.

Trammell leds Ryno by just eight points in OBP while Ryno leads Trammell in SLG by 37 points. Big difference.

Both are over 2000 hits. Tramm has more doubles and Ryno has more triples.

Tramm played the most demanding position in baseball besides catcher, SS. Tramm was WS MVP. 4 gold gloves and 3 silver sluggers. 2nd in runs created in 87. Hit 364 in playoffs.

And Ryno won 10 GGs and seven Silver Sluggers and he won the 1984 MVP Award and had two other top four finishes. Ryno also made 10 straight All-Star teams, Trammell made only six All Star teams.

Re-freaking-diculus that Tramms not in before Ryno. I think Ryno should be in, but not before Tramm.
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OK.

[Cougar]

They both should be in, but Sandberg was probably a little better.

To be sure, Ryno's skills were more obvious as the flashier player.

It's surely true that Trammell is very unappreciated, but I'm not sure maligning Sandberg is the best way to make that point.

[Cougar]

Ps

Oh, and I strongly suspect that the Kilpatrick re-election was rigged.

[DoubleX]

While I believe the Trammell should be in the Hall, I think Sandberg was the better player, and probably by a good margin. With the exception of plate discipline, Sandberg was a much better all-around player than Trammell and unquestionably the best of his generation at his position (whereas Trammell ranks behind Ripken and Yount, and is somewhere close to Smith, he's also behind Larkin, though Larkin's career overlaps mostly with the end of Trammell's career).

I'm often amazed about how underappreciated Sandberg is. He is one if the finest all-around middle infielders to play the game:

- He hit for good average in before he retired and came back
- He had tremendous power for a middle infielder (especially for one in the 80s) and until Kent recently broke the record, Sandberg had the most homeruns for a 2Bman
- He had good speed and stole plenty of bases
- Had a tremendous glove (9 GGs)

So in sum: Sandberg was the better all-around hitter; Sandberg was the better baserunner; and Sandberg was probably the better fielder, irrespective of position.

Also keep in mind, that Trammell played 4 more seasons than Sandberg and that Sandberg temporarily walked away while in his prime.

[NShlain]

And Ryno won 10 GGs and seven Silver Sluggers and he won the 1984 MVP Award and had two other top four finishes. Ryno also made 10 straight All-Star teams, Trammell made only six All Star teams.


OK.

It is easier to win GGs and SSsat 2b than at SS. Easier to make All-Star teams at 2b than SS with ripken around.

Strikeouts - K's R-1260 T-874 and tramm played 4 more years.

Alan Trammell and Lou Whitaker are two of the most underrated players of their time and they should both be in the hall.

[digglahhh]

Strikeouts - K's R-1260 T-874 and tramm played 4 more years.

Is that what its going to say on the plaque?

BTW, it is not "easier" to win GGs at 2B. The position itself is less demanding but that's not the same thing.

Seriously, I wouldn't quibble at all if Trammel was inducted, he probably deserves it. But if I could only induct one, I'd take Sandberg.

[DoubleX]

It is easier to win GGs and SSsat 2b than at SS. Easier to make All-Star teams at 2b than SS with ripken around.

Strikeouts - K's R-1260 T-874 and tramm played 4 more years.

Alan Trammell and Lou Whitaker are two of the most underrated players of their time and they should both be in the hall.

I'm a Trammell fan and think he should be in the Hall, but the strikeouts and walks argument is a very weak one in favor of Trammell over Sandberg. In every other way, Sandberg was a superior player to Trammell. Let's look at this way, keeping in mind that Trammell played 4 more seasons than Sandberg:

Gold Gloves
Sandberg: 10
Trammell: 4 - Ripken didn't prevent Trammell from winning Gold Gloves (Ripken won his two awards 8 years after Trammell won his 4th). If anyone stood in Trammell's way, it was Tony Fernandez, so it's not as if Ozzie Smith or Luis Aparicio were keeping Trammell from winning. Anyway, 10-4 is a sizeable difference.

No. of Seasons with At Least 20 Homeruns
Sandberg: 6 (high of 40)
Trammell: 2 (high of 28)

No. of Season with At Least 30 Stolen Bases
Sandberg: 5 (high of 54)
Trammell: 1 (high of 30)

No. of .300 Seasons
Sandberg: 5
Trammell: 7 - Though he played four extra seasons and didn't temporarily retire in his prime

Sandberg was just a more well-rounded player than Trammell.

[Chadwick]

Let me nake one thing clear, the hall of fame is a joke. For them to put Ryne Sandberg in the hall of fame before Alan Trammell is the dumbest thing I've ever heard....Re-freaking-diculus that Tramms not in before Ryno. I think Ryno should be in, but not before Tramm.

Anyone who believes either of those players are Hall of Famers will certainly agree with your contention that that voters don't know what they're doing.

Consider that Sandberg was first eligible in 2003 and that fewer than half the voters gave him their vote! That's simply criminal! It took Sandberg three tries before he was elected, and even then his 76% wasn't much breathing room. Trammell's candidacy shows even poorer judgement on the writers' part, with four elections (and counting) and his support hovering in the 13-16% range.

Criminal.

Sure, Trammell should have been elected first, but because Trammell should have been inducted in 2002 (and Sandberg in 2003.)

Fact is that Sandberg, one way or another, has been inducted. His cause has been served. Getting the voters to wake up to the merits of Trammell's case is the real problem at hand, not crying over the spilled milk of Sandberg's preeminence in the voters collective minds.

[The Commissioner]

You expect them to be smart enough to elect Trammell, when they couldn't even keep Whitaker on the ballot?

[J W]

Great response Commish.

I apologize, there's nothing to add--just needed to say it.

[Tram2Lou]

The real question I have is, how is Ozzie Smith a first ballot hall of famer, while Tram gets only 17% of the votes?

[rockin500]

The real question I have is, how is Ozzie Smith a first ballot hall of famer, while Tram gets only 17% of the votes?

thats a question that befuddles many people.

[KCGHOST]

I think something you should consider in your tirade against the HoF is that Trammell wouldn't be elected if you voting group was the members of BBF. He would get a higher percentage with BBF than the BBWAA, but he still wouldn't get in. In fact I have never seen Trammell getting enough votes in any of the mock votes I have seen over the years. It would be interesting if SABR had a vote to see how they view Trammell.

BTW, if the HoF is a joke then why do you care one way or the other if Trammell gets in??

[BoSox Rule]

EqA
Trammell: .282
Sandberg: .282

WARP3
Trammell: 117.6 (8.3 per 162)
Sandberg: 105.8 (7.9 per 162)

Fielding puts Trammell over the top. He had 525 runs in the field to Sandbergs 429. Trammell and 101 more than average, Sandberg just 67.