Will Clark Got Shafted!

[538280]

Lolich is his own biased choice as a Tigers fan. Nothing more.
If you're going to do a poll, do it to legitimately gauge opinion, not to attempt to humiliate another user.

I'm sorry if I offended anyone, but if a member says on one thread he doesn't think Barry Bonds should be in the HOF (and not because of steroids), then that's just beyond anything. He has 700+ career HRs for crying out loud.

[Captain Cold Nose]

I'm sorry if I offended anyone, but if a member says on one thread he doesn't think Barry Bonds should be in the HOF (and not because of steroids), then that's just beyond anything. He has 700+ career HRs for crying out loud.

I think we all agree on that. Bonds and Griffey, for two, are at the very top of the list of current players headed for Cooperstown. If either get below 95% on their first ballot, well, it's not for what they did on the field.
Tigerfan, Junior may have dropped off the charts for a few years, but his book had already been written at that point. It's not like he wasn't producing when he was actually playing. His defense, whether the people here who "measure" that sort of thing buy it or not, impressed plenty of important enough people who's voices are actually listened to, and he was putting up huge offensive numbers for a long enough time where it wasn't a fluky little run. There's no reason to count him out if you actually look at what he did.

[Tigerfan1974]

For the record . . . .

I am not sure whether Lolich belongs in the Hall or not. I have simply advocated him receiving another look. In comparison to some who have received recogniton; Maz, Bunning; he deserves a look. That is all.
In reality, no he probably will not make it, and perhaps shouldn't.
As on another thread, I question McNally too, but perhaps he is deserving of another consideration.

As to Griffey, Bonds and McGwire. I think all 3 will end up in the Hall.
Personally, I questions Bonds getting in, as I do Sosa and Raffy, for their 'roid use. Inevitably, they will all end up there.

I do have some reservations about Sheffield, Bags and Thomas. Perhaps I will be proven wrong.

To get back to the thread topic, I think Clark did not get shafted. He did not, should not and will not make the Hall. IMO.

[Tigerfan1974]

And not Bonds! So, TigerFan, care to debate that one? Mickey Lolich belongs in the HOF but Barry Bonds doesn't. We should start a poll. Who's more Hall deserving, Bonds or Lolich?

And you can't say a word about steroids either, because you said McGwire is first ballot in your opinion.

A Bonds/Lolich poll? Please!! Let's not get ridiculous.

And may I say as to McGwire, everyone is always saying if there is no smoking gun, let's give the benefit of the doubt.
McGwire has never been proven to use PED's as in the case of Raffy or Bonds.

[leecemark]

--The level of "proof" against McGwire is about the same as against Bonds.

[DoubleX]

--The level of "proof" against McGwire is about the same as against Bonds.

I believe there are also more eye witness accounts about McGwire juicing. I've said this before, but ESPN.com and ESPN the Magazine did a terrific piece on steroids a few months ago, and there were people (like suppliers and trainers) directly fingering McGwire.

[538280]

A Bonds/Lolich poll? Please!! Let's not get ridiculous.

And may I say as to McGwire, everyone is always saying if there is no smoking gun, let's give the benefit of the doubt.
McGwire has never been proven to use PED's as in the case of Raffy or Bonds.

Bonds has never been proven to have used anything. All the evidence against Bonds is basically his involvement with Balco and the trainer, Greg Anderson, claiming that he used a steroid cream. McGwire has had numerous people in articles (like the ESPN Magazine one XX mentioned), and Jose Canseco also claimed he was using. From what I've gathered there's more evidence against Bonds than against McGwire. Saying you want to keep Bonds out of the Hall for alleged steroid or PED use and yet still want McGwire in is a complete contradiction. Not to mention that Bonds was a much better player than McGwire as well.

[johnny]

I think it really puts into perspective Will 'The Thrill's comment on his old college team-mate, Rafi Palmero getting a positive Roids test result.

'ha ha .... you got caught!'

Put yourself in The Thrill's spot, you see your HOF chances diminished by those that you feel are cheating. That has to hurt or feel very very frustrating to say the least.