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The Hall of Mistakes, Election #15

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  • The Hall of Mistakes, Election #15

    The Hall of Fame is never going to identify its mistakes, so it’s up to us. This is the 15th in a series of polls to set up a new wing in the Coop. We want to isolate the players that don’t reach the HOF’s minimum standards, so that they will not be used as examples for arguing that a similar player deserves enshrinement. We’ll elect one mistake at a time. These are our first 14 dishonorees, by position:

    C - Rick Ferrell
    1B - George Kelly
    2B - none
    3B - Fred Lindstrom
    SS - Travis Jackson
    LF - Chick Hafey
    CF - Lloyd Waner, Earle Combs
    RF - Tommy McCarthy, Ross Youngs
    P - Rube Marquard, Jesse Haines, Chief Bender, Herb Pennock, Jack Chesbro

    Over on the History forum they’re running polls using the MVP voting format, voting for 10 guys in rank order, with points assigned 12,9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1. Let’s use that method. Your worst hall of fame player will be voted #1, the next worst #2, down to your 10th worst. The player with the most total points at the end of the poll (probably about a week) will hereafter be designated as a Mistake. We will follow with another thread to identify the next worst player, and so on. We’ll continue until we’ve voted out 15% of the Coop’s 213 players (32 guys; this could increase to 33 if at least four players from Black baseball are elected in 2006).

    Players classified by the HOF as Pioneers/Managers/Executives/Umpires (e.g., Candy Cummings) are not eligible for this election. However, be aware that the 17 Negro league players are included - they are fair game for labeling as Mistakes.

    We will use the Hall’s criteria in deciding player’s merit. That means you should take into account the sum total of the man’s contributions both on and off the field. For example, Tommy McCarthy is probably the worst player in the Hall stat-wise. However, he was elected as much for being an innovator, a pioneer and a winning player as he was for his production as a player.

    Or Hughie Jennings. He has one of the shortest playing careers in the Hall. However, he was also a successful manager in addition to being the central player on a team often cited as the best of the 19th century. Frank Chance has a similar profile.

    So, voters will have to decide how much weight to give non-playing accomplishments. It should be interesting, as voters will need to consider more than just stats.

    A couple threads in this forum suggest candidates for voting out. The “Upper/Lower Hall of Fame Vote” thread has my list of who I think are the worst 76 players in the Hall. The poll under “Veterans Committee Mistakes” has the 26 worst players being Haines, T.Jackson, Lindstrom, Chesbro, Combs, Marquard, L. Waner, R. Ferrell, Hafey, Youngs, Hooper, G.Kelly, Tinker, Bottomley, Evers, Bancroft, Schoendienst, Rizzuto, Schalk, Lazzeri, Kell, Manush, Bender, Hoyt, Beckley and Wilson. (That poll did not include McCarthy, Willis or Chance.) There is also some good discussion from last spring in the thread “Weak HOFers”. Finally, in the thread "5 Tier HOF (v. 2) - The Admirable & Borderline" from 2003, the bottom 25 were identified (alphabetically) as Bancroft, Bottomley, Bresnahan, Chance, Chesbro, Combs, Evers, Ferrell, Hafey, Haines, Hoyt, T.Jackson, G.Kelly, Lindstrom, Maranville, Marquard, Mazeroski, McCarthy, Pennock, Rizzuto, Schalk, Schoendienst, Tinker, L.Waner, and Youngs.

    With Lindstrom, Kelly, McCarthy, Marquard, Haines, Waner, T. Jackson, Ferrell, Youngs, Bender, Hafey, Pennock, Combs and Chesbro no longer eligible, here's my list of the next ten to vote out:

    1.Tinker
    2.Schalk
    3.Hoyt W
    4.Kell G
    5.Johnson J
    6.Bottomley
    7.Willis
    8.Manush
    9.Hooper
    10.Bancroft
    Last edited by Freakshow; 01-12-2006, 07:54 AM.
    Si quaeris peninsulam amoenam, circumspice.

    Comprehensive Reform for the Veterans Committee -- Fixing the Hall continued.

  • #2
    1.Waite Hoyt
    2.Joe Tinker
    3.Harry Hooper
    4.Dave Bancroft
    5.Jim Bottomley
    6.Red Schoendienst
    7.Phil Rizzuto
    8.Rollie Fingers
    9.Ray Schalk
    10.Heinie Manush

    Comment


    • #3
      1.Judy Johnson
      2.Vic Willis
      3.Joe Tinker
      4.Eppa Rixey
      5.Red Schoendienst
      6.Ray Schalk
      7.Waite Hoyt
      8.Heinie Manush
      9.George Kell
      10.Jim Bottomley

      Comment


      • #4
        1. Schalk
        2. Schoendienst
        3. Fingers
        4. Perez, Tony
        5. Hoyt
        6. Johnson, J.
        7. Bottomley
        8. Joe Tinker
        9. Rizzuto
        10. Mazeroski
        Buck O'Neil: The Monarch of Baseball

        Comment


        • #5
          I'll close this round out later tonight. Four ballots would set a new low mark.
          Si quaeris peninsulam amoenam, circumspice.

          Comprehensive Reform for the Veterans Committee -- Fixing the Hall continued.

          Comment


          • #6
            Results, Election #15

            Condolences to Waite Hoyt, who becomes the 15th member of the Hall of Mistakes. Schoolboy finally went over the top, after finishing runnerup in the previous three elections. He joins Fred Lindstrom, George Kelly, Tommy McCarthy, Rube Marquard, Jesse Haines, Lloyd Waner, Travis Jackson, Rick Ferrell, Ross Youngs, Chief Bender, Chick Hafey, Herb Pennock, Earle Combs and Jack Chesbro. It looks like a race between Tinker, Schalk and Johnson for the next election.

            Here are the full results for the 15th election:
            Code:
            Pts	1st	Bal	Top 10 Players
            42	2	5	Waite Hoyt
            39	1	5	Joe Tinker
            37	1	5	Ray Schalk
            31	1	4	Judy Johnson
            26	0	4	Red Schoendienst
            21	0	5	Jim Bottomley
            14	0	3	Harry Hooper
            14	0	3	Rollie Fingers
            14	0	3	Vic Willis
            10	0	3	Dave Bancroft
            			the rest
            9	0	2	Kell
            7	0	3	Manush
            7	0	1	Rixey
            7	0	1	Perez
            6	0	2	Rizzuto
            1	0	1	Mazeroski
            Si quaeris peninsulam amoenam, circumspice.

            Comprehensive Reform for the Veterans Committee -- Fixing the Hall continued.

            Comment

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