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  • Jumping Ahead: Next Year's VC

    Since we've done this with the BBWAA ballot, I'm curious who people think should be elected by the Veterans Committee next year. Of course, it's difficult to project ballots without, at least, the lists of 200/60 names the Historical Overview Committee is currently working on. However, why don't we just put in our own lists. So here are the rules...

    (1) For players, consider that anyone who's final season was 1985 or earlier will be eligible for this election, provided they played at least 10 seasons. List those candidates you believe should be elected to the Hall of Fame. (No more than 10.)

    (2) For managers, executives or umpires, consider that anyone who's last season was 2002 or earlier, or has retired since and is at least 65 years old, will be eligible for this election.

    For those needing help thinking of possible candidates, here's the 2005 HOC's list of 200 players and here's the 2003 HOC's lists of 200 players and 60 "composite" candidates.

    Remember that there are two VC elections next year.

    Curious what your lists are. Here's mine:

    2007 VC Players Election
    Dick Allen
    Ken Boyer
    Wes Ferrell
    Bill Freehan
    Joe Gordon
    Carl Mays
    Tony Oliva
    Joe Torre
    Ron Santo
    Jimmy Wynn

    2007 VC Composite Election
    Daniel "Doc" Adams
    Buzzie Bavasi
    Charlie O. Finley
    Whitey Herzog
    Bob Howsam
    Billy Martin
    Marvin Miller
    Walter O'Malley
    Billy Southworth
    Dick Williams
    "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
    "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
    "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
    "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

  • #2
    I can't imagine the current VC electing anybody. They have elected no one in their last two attempts.

    As for me I'd elect Santo from the players list and no one from the composite list.
    Buck O'Neil: The Monarch of Baseball

    Comment


    • #3
      Though I can't argue with KCGhost that at least no player is likely to get in through this VC, I'd nominate Dick Allen, Bill Dahlen, Joe Gordon, Stan Hack, Bill Freehan, Larry Doyle, Bob Caruthers, Tony Mullane, Jack Glasscock and Vern Stephens among the players. I'm going to go with a short list on the other group: Marvin Miller, Lefty O'Doul, Walter O'Malley, Billy Southworth, Billy Martin, Dick Williams and Whitey Herzog.

      Jim Albright
      Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
      Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
      A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

      Comment


      • #4
        They should just do it like the regular HOF voting: Leave on the ballot any player receiving more than 5% last time and fill in the rest with new retirees.

        Results of last vote:
        Code:
        Player	*Votes	** Pct**
        		
        *Gil Hodges	*52	*65.0%
        *Ron Santo	*52	*65.0%
        *Tony Oliva	*45	*56.3%
        *Jim Kaat	*43	*53.8%
        *Joe Torre	*36	*45.0%
        *Maury Wills	*26	*32.5%
        *Vada Pinson	*23	*28.8%
        *Luis Tiant	*20	*25.0%
        *Roger Maris	*19	*23.8%
        *Marty Marion	*16	*20.0%
        *Ken Boyer	*15	*18.8%
        *Joe Gordon	*14	*17.5%
        *Carl Mays	*12	*15.0%
        *Minnie Minoso	*12	*15.0%
        *Dick Allen	*12	*15.0%
        *Curt Flood	*10	*12.5%
        *Wes Ferrell	** 9	*11.3%
        *Mickey Lolich	** 9	*11.3%
        *Don Newcombe	** 8	*10.0%
        *Sparky Lyle	** 7	** 8.8%
        *Elston Howard	** 6	** 7.5%
        *Bobby Bonds	** 4	** 5.0%
        *Rocky Colavito	** 4	** 5.0%
        *Thurman Munson	** 2	** 2.5%
        *Smoky Joe Wood	** 2	** 2.5%
        Drop off Munson and Wood and add Staub and Oliver.

        No other players retiring in 1984-85 seem ballot worthy (not not all of the above are either. ) This group includes Greg Luzinski, Tug McGraw, Amos Otis, Lou Piniella, Ken Singleton and Mike Torrez from 1984, and Larry Bowa, Mike Hargrove and Jerry Koosman from 1985.
        Si quaeris peninsulam amoenam, circumspice.

        Comprehensive Reform for the Veterans Committee -- Fixing the Hall continued.

        Comment


        • #5
          The VC stinks in its present format. Of course, members of an elite club are going to be extremely leary of adding new members. The fact that it's only every other year makes it worse! For years the VC put in underwhelming and undeserving candidates (Rizzuto, Mazeroski, Bunning), with only a few exceptions (Mizes), but now that there are a number of deserving candidates on the outside looking in (Santo, Allen, Minoso, Torre) and a number more that will join the ballot in the coming years (Hernandez, Grich, Simmons, Whitaker), these deserving yet overlooked candidates will unlikely ever get their due. And it's truly unfair, given all the poor selections the old VC put in.

          Hopefully, if this time the VC fails to put any players, the VC will be reformatted. The goal is to put players in, and those players that the idiot writers overlooked.

          Comment


          • #6
            2007 VC Players Election
            Bill Freehan
            Tony Oliva
            Ron Santo
            Mickey Lolich

            2007 VC Composite Election
            Whitey Herzog
            Billy Martin
            1968 and 1984, the greatest ever.

            Comment


            • #7
              --Considering Gil Hodges tied with Santo for top vote getter last time and I wouldn't support him, I be reluctant to campaign for more than one guy (and getting one guy elected would be an achievement as it is). The only other guys over 50% were Oliva and Kaat and they are both borderline IMO. Most of the guys other than Santo that I'd support are so far down in the vote totals that it would be hopelessly optimistic to think they really have a chance. At least Minoso has a shot with the Negro League vote (although he really should be considered primarily as a major leaguer).

              Comment


              • #8
                Based on who was eligible for the last election (I don't know what new players might come along this time), I'd vote for:

                Ron Santo
                Joe Torre
                Ken Boyer
                Joe Gordon
                Minnie Minoso
                Dick Allen

                I'd also consider adding Bob Johnson, Sherry Magee and Bill Dahlen to that list.

                Will Bobby Grich be eligible for the VC in 2007? If so, then he's on my list.

                Players that I'm on the fence about are:

                Gil Hodges
                Tony Oliva
                Carl Mays
                Sparky Lyle
                Elston Howard
                Bobby Bonds

                Players that I would add to this list include:

                Bill Freehan
                Larry Doyle
                Stan Hack
                Vern Stephens
                Last edited by DoubleX; 01-19-2006, 10:00 AM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by DoubleX
                  Hopefully, if this time the VC fails to put any players, the VC will be reformatted. The goal is to put players in, and those players that the idiot writers overlooked.
                  I agree the VC will be reformatted, but I disagree about the goal. The goal is to select worthy candidates. You're right, I am being semantical.

                  One thing I will guarantee you is that if you took the top 100 posters at this site and have them vote on the candidates you will see that of the 20 players you listed at most one might get 75 "yes" votes. And I wouldn't bet on that.
                  Buck O'Neil: The Monarch of Baseball

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by KCGHOST
                    I agree the VC will be reformatted, but I disagree about the goal. The goal is to select worthy candidates. You're right, I am being semantical.

                    One thing I will guarantee you is that if you took the top 100 posters at this site and have them vote on the candidates you will see that of the 20 players you listed at most one might get 75 "yes" votes. And I wouldn't bet on that.
                    That's actually what I meant when I said the goal is to "those players that the idiot writers overlooked," meaning that the VC should be an oversight committee for players that the writers missed (of which, there are at least a handful of deserving players).

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Jumping Ahead: Next Year's VC

                      There have been alot of mistakes made by the old oldtimers committee, one of the biggest was not putting Gil Hodges in the HOF. He was the best 1st baseman of the 1950's, he led all right handed hitters in home runs when he retired with 370, he won the first 3 gold gloves and could have won more if it was awarded from 1950-56. He was on 8 all star teams, hit 4 homers in a game and also hit for the cycle. He was the 1st baseman on 7 pennant winners( also 1 near miss oh that Bobby Thomson) and 2 world series winners.
                      He finished in the top 3-5 in 12 of the 15 years he was on the ballot, It is not hard finding Gil Hodges on the writers ballot he is always near the top, he was on the ballot from 1969-83. One of the reasons he wasn't elected was because he died so young in 1972, they wanted warm bodies being inducted, no doubt in my mind if he lived he'd be in the HOF now. Go check out this site and see how Gil did in each election, also check out the guys you like being judged by the writers that actually seen them play.
                      http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/hi...ng/default.htm
                      Lets support Gil Hodges for The Hall of Fame, a true Hall of Famer.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I'm all for Allen and Santo.
                        "I think about baseball when I wake up in the morning. I think about it all day and I dream about it at night. The only time I don't think about it is when I'm playing it."
                        Carl Yastrzemski

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Jumping Ahead: Next Year's VC

                          Could you explain why Allen and Santo, Allen never got more then 16% from the writers Santo topped out at 43%. They were good, I saw both play, I think they both just fall shy.
                          Lets support Gil Hodges for The Hall of Fame, a true Hall of Famer.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            The writers....

                            I trust most of the guys on this forum to select members for the hall, and I'm not saying that to be facetious. Most of the members here have a much better grip on the subject matter.
                            "I think about baseball when I wake up in the morning. I think about it all day and I dream about it at night. The only time I don't think about it is when I'm playing it."
                            Carl Yastrzemski

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Jumping Ahead: Next Year's VC

                              It is nice to know who you are talking to before you knock them down. I happen to have a very good grasp on the subject of the hall of fame and baseball in general having been a fan for over 50 years. People like to throw out names for the hall of fame without giving reasons why they belong. I'm here to have a serious discusion on hall of fame candidates, not to be looked down on when I ask why, the reason I asked why is I'd like to know if you know something I don't about the player or I missed something, that's how you learn.
                              Lets support Gil Hodges for The Hall of Fame, a true Hall of Famer.

                              Comment

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