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Okay, a kinda hard HOF-question...

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  • Okay, a kinda hard HOF-question...

    Mark McGwire. Is he in the Hall? 583 career homers, with 70 coming in one of them. Should he get in, even though he no longer holds the record? I say yes. Also, if he does get in, which hat should he wear? Should he wear Oakland's because he played for them longer, or St. Louis because he is known best as a Cardinal?

  • #2
    I don't think there'll be much of an argument here or in real life over McGwire. I'll say I don't think he was one of the five greatest 1B of all time, but I still think he's a Hall member. I think there's one guy who won't vote for him (or Harmon Killebrew, for that matter), but that's about it.

    I say Cardinals for the hat. I think of him that way now. But, the A's wouldn't look bad on him.
    http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploa...-showalter.gif

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    • #3
      McGwire is going to be a first ballot Hall of Famer. As to what hat he should wear, either would be fine, but I have a feeling he is going to go in as a Cardinal.

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      • #4
        I agree with both posts he is 1st ballot but will get the least % between Gwynn and Ripken and himself in the year all 3 go in together.

        I also think of him in red but owuld understand if he was enshrined with an A on his cap either way he will always be associated with St. Louis
        GO CARDINALS!!!!

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        • #5
          Big Mac is a first ballot Hall of Famer. I'd guess he'll get elected on about 95% of the ballots.

          McGwire still holds one home run record that might not ever be broken: Home Runs by a Rookie (49 in 1987).

          When I think of McGwire, it almost seems like I have two different people in mind: the lanky young kid that wowed the world for Oakland; and the muscle bound slugger from St. Louis.

          It should be noted that McGwire wore an Oakland A's uniform when he won his only championship, 1989. I'm not sure how much that should factor in the cap decision, but it should.
          "I guess my thermometer for my baseball fever is still a goose bump."

          - Vin Scully

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          • #6
            I can't believe Mark McGwire's Hall of Fame credentials are being questioned!?! Wow!

            Yeah, I have to agree with the concensus here: he'll go in on the first ballot and he'll have a very high percentage of votes.

            McGwire is easily one of the 10 best first-basemen and/or 10 best power hitters in the history of the game.

            As to what cap he wears, my personal opinion is "who cares?" but to answer your question I think it's a toss-up though the Hall will probably settle on the Cardinals (since they get to choose).

            While I'm persuaded by the argument for the StL cap (he had his most significant accomplishments occur in the NL), consider the following as an argument for wearing the A's cap:

            McGwire spent 75% of his seasons in Oakland.
            He had 71% of his career plate appearances as an Athletic.
            He hit 62% of his career home runs as an Athletic.
            He broke the rookie home run record (in 1987) as an Athletic.
            He was part of the famous "Brash Brothers" duo as an Athletic.
            He played in three World Series as an Athletic.
            He won a World Championship as an Athletic.
            He was a 9-time All Star in Oakland.
            He won the AL Rookie of the Year Award while in Oakland.
            He won his only gold glove (1990) while in Oakland.
            He finish in the top 10 in MVP voting 3 times while in Oakland.

            He was only with the Cardinals four and a half seasons, by comparison. How could that measure up to the 11 and a half years in Oakland? Just breaking Maris' record negates all the other advantages Oakland has?

            Not making a definative statement, just trying to build the argument for Oakland.
            "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
            "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
            "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
            "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

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            • #7
              I think he is going in 1st ballot with very high, very high voting percentage. Also, I think he will be in as an A, as I've thought.

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              • #8
                I think he could be a first ballot HOF'er if Jose Canseco or Mark himself tells something about a supplement he took.
                2nd member of the Peter Moylan Fan Club

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                • #9
                  I suppose my criteria for HOF is higher than others.


                  Mac will go in.

                  However .....................

                  He's a HR hitter. Nothing more. No foot speed, never had any. Won a Gold Glove (once), but that may have been more by default. He'd never win one now. Pretty weak lifetime BA. In his last 5 seasons, 75% of his plate appearences resulted in a BB, HR or K.

                  In my HOF, he would get special recognition for the '98 HR race.

                  But not a place with the immortals.

                  The HOF got it right in the Charter voting. 5 players were selected form the thousands that had played before. And they were all above reproach.

                  Now, too many players get in. Players who are one-dimentional. Like Mac. Players who did a lot of DH. It is NOT a position, to be a DH.
                  Living with the Curse of Keith Hernandez since 1982

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by CardFanNV:
                    "...It is NOT a position, to be a DH."


                    you're very vociferous with wrt your oppostion to the DH CardFanNV (and nothing wrong with that at all, in fact i prefer it to 'waffling' ) but i've asked you before and am still interested to know:

                    what %, or number of games, would you need to see at a [defensive] position before you'd consider that player a HOF candidate, if at all?

                    do you have a max #/% of DH games and you're out?
                    a min #/% of position games to be in?

                    do any of the 'anti-DH-faction' out there have a criterion that they use when considering HOF candidacy and the DH?


                    cheers,



                    razors

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                    • #11
                      It's hard to put it into a certain set of criteria ..........................

                      It's more a question of, did being primarily a DH extend a player's career or enhance his numbers?

                      Eddie Murray - spent the last 4 years of his career as a DH. He's borderline. George Brett is similar.

                      Paul Molitor - "played" DH more than he started at any other position. Edgar Martinez is similar.

                      If a player STARTED (and thta's pretty much the ONLY way to be a DH) 10-15% of his games at that "position" he should be reconsidered. If more than that, sorry, no way.

                      Cal and Tony G. played in the field all their careers. Why can't everyone?
                      Living with the Curse of Keith Hernandez since 1982

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                      • #12
                        I think they should put a bottle of Androstosterone in the HOF instead of Mc Gwire.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by brewcrew19
                          I think they should put a bottle of Androstosterone in the HOF instead of Mc Gwire.

                          Big Mac is completely similar to Killebrew. HR hitter, nothing more. Had one skill down very well, but not above average at the rest.
                          Living with the Curse of Keith Hernandez since 1982

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by CardFanNV
                            ...It's more a question of, did being primarily a DH extend a player's career or enhance his numbers? Eddie Murray - spent the last 4 years of his career as a DH. He's borderline. George Brett is similar. Paul Molitor - "played" DH more than he started at any other position. Edgar Martinez is similar....
                            Do you really think Brett, Murray, Molitor, McGwire and Martinez are marginal/borderline Hall of Famers?
                            "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
                            "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
                            "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
                            "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              File under: Duh!

                              Should Big Mac be in the Hall? YEEEEESSS!
                              Should he be first-ballot? YEEEEESSS!
                              What cap should he be wearing on his plaque? Who gives a rip? (Though I suspect it'll be Oaktown's.)

                              ==============================================

                              Pointless prediction for the '07 ballot:
                              Ripken 94%
                              McGwire 90%
                              Gwynn 86%
                              Baines 26%
                              Caminiti & Canseco under 5%
                              the ubiquitous Bly11

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