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Edgar Martinez in the Hall??

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  • Originally posted by MikeCameronFAN
    Sorry, but I just don't agree. From about 1990 - 1999, the only human being on the planet more marketable than Ken Griffey Jr. was Michael Jordan.
    Buhner got "Buhner Buzz Night" because the other 80 games of the season were dedicated to The Kid.
    Edgar and Buhner were simply icing on Griffey's cake.
    So I assume that means that the massive jump in attendance between '95 and '96 was because of a guy who spent the majority of the season injured?

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    • Originally posted by tearforamariner
      So I assume that means that the massive jump in attendance between '95 and '96 was because of a guy who spent the majority of the season injured?
      I find it really odd that we're even debating this. There shouldn't be any question in anyone's mind: Junior put Seattle on the baseball map. Period.

      Sure, there was an attendance jump after the 1995 season in which Griffey was injured and limited to 72 games (BTW - he was an All-Star and Gold Glove winner that season), but it can be attributed to the M's (as a team - not one individual) making the playoffs for the first time. Your boy Buhner spent his fair share riding the pine as well (36 games).

      I'm sure there's a substantial difference in the average attendance rates between:
      '83-'88 (pre-Griffey) and '89-'94 (w/ Griffey, pre-playoffs)

      And as an interesting side note...
      Junior tore it up in the playoffs vs. the Yankees and Indians
      .391/.444/1.043 w/ 5 HR in 5 games vs. Yanks
      .333/.440/.571 w/ 1 HR in 6 games vs. Tribe

      And I know the pitching was worn out by this point, but Edgar really helped the M's watch the World Series at home with his absolutely pathetic .087/.192/.087 clip vs. Cleveland in the playoffs.
      Conor Glassey

      "The secret of managing is to keep the guys who hate you away from the guys who are undecided."
      -Casey Stengel

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      • Originally posted by MikeCameronFAN
        I find it really odd that we're even debating this. There shouldn't be any question in anyone's mind: Junior put Seattle on the baseball map. Period.

        Sure, there was an attendance jump after the 1995 season in which Griffey was injured and limited to 72 games (BTW - he was an All-Star and Gold Glove winner that season), but it can be attributed to the M's (as a team - not one individual) making the playoffs for the first time. Your boy Buhner spent his fair share riding the pine as well (36 games).

        I'm sure there's a substantial difference in the average attendance rates between:
        '83-'88 (pre-Griffey) and '89-'94 (w/ Griffey, pre-playoffs)

        And as an interesting side note...
        Junior tore it up in the playoffs vs. the Yankees and Indians
        .391/.444/1.043 w/ 5 HR in 5 games vs. Yanks
        .333/.440/.571 w/ 1 HR in 6 games vs. Tribe

        And I know the pitching was worn out by this point, but Edgar really helped the M's watch the World Series at home with his absolutely pathetic .087/.192/.087 clip vs. Cleveland in the playoffs.
        Okay, let me correct myself. Other than Griffey, Bone was the most influential player in Mariner history. I still think that Griffey's "super-stardom" was only further fuel by the Bone persona, and Bone dos not get enough credit for his role.

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        • To me a HOF player should be an all around players since DH have been around 25 yrs maybe there should a special designation if so he would be the only one in it. Also as a DH his chances of being are much lower all part of the game.

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          • Originally posted by Chancellor
            There are tens of thousands of people across the United States who could strap on a glove and play a major league caliber field...
            ...and Edgar Martinez is not one of those people. The BBWAA shouldn't consider that? I disagree that Edgar should be inducted just because he's put up bigger numbers than any other career DH. There's no provision that says that there must be a DH in the Hall of Fame. That said, I guess I might back him, but I'd have to wait until he's eligible and had some time to think about his career as a whole.
            "Hall of Famer Whitey Ford now on the field... pleading with the crowd for, for some kind of sanity!"

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            • edgar is hands down the best dh ever. any other position and that is end of the arguement - first ballot hall of famer. of course, the problem with being the best ever dh is that very few (only one?) great players have dhed the majority of their careers well, molitor was close. he was okay at third, but couldn't stay healthy. for that matter he's missed alot of time even dhing. he has also been far and away the slowest baserunner in the majors for at least the last five years. i wouldn't vote for him and i doubt the writers will either. however, if they did he would be far from the worst member. mariners fans would love to see him as their first HOFer.

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              • Originally posted by ci11829
                To me a HOF player should be an all around players since DH have been around 25 yrs maybe there should a special designation if so he would be the only one in it. Also as a DH his chances of being are much lower all part of the game.

                so you want very few (if any) pitchers in the hall?

                what about catchers or 'pure' sluggers?

                just asking...



                razors

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                • Edgar Martinez, Hall of Fame? PLEASE RESPOND!!!

                  Edgar Martinez is the greatest DH to ever play the game, and the most valuable player to the Mariners of all time. :gt On black and white Edgar sure looks good. He is one of only 18 players ever to have 6 or more POP (premium offensive player) seasons, a POP season is one in which the player has a BA over .300, OBP over .400, SLG over .500, and Edgar has eight! All 18 players who have earned this stat have gone onto, or for the active players, going to be in the Hall of Fame. The big contreversy is that he only hits and is not a defensive player. He has played 1st and 3rd base, but not very well tying a MLB record for most errors in a single game. :grouchy I'm just posting this because there is no way Olerud and especially Cameron should be talked about entering the Hall of Fame in front Edgar, and I am amazed no one has talked about him. :noidea Maybe everyone thought he was a sure thing? Just remember he is a DH and it is very hard to make it, sort of like a reliever, into the Hall of Fame.
                  Mako224

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                  • Check out this thread, Mako.

                    http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=8496

                    You're new here, so, welcome. However, discussion on Martinez's candidacy is not. It's come up several times beyond this thread, as well.
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                    • On a seperate note, though... the day John Olerud and Mike Cameron make it in the Hall of Fame is the day I stop having any respect whatsoever for the institution. Those guys are questionable as All Stars (with the exception of Olerud's batting title year), but to have their names even brought up in HoF discussions is ridiculous.
                      "Simply put, the passion, interest and tradition surrounding baseball in New York is unmatched."

                      Sean McAdam, ESPN.com

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                      • Martinez is actually one of only 13 players with 9+ seasons of .300/.400/.500 plus offense. Barry Bonds (10) and Frank Thomas (9) are the only other active players with that many "POP" seasons under their belt.

                        Martinez's candidacy boils down to two things: (a) his low career totals and (b) how much having no defensive position should hurt him. As for the latter, I'm convinced that he should be treated as a player with replacement-level defense. The fact that the rules don't require him to take the field shouldn't be held against him. As for the former...

                        True Martinez has "only" 2,174 hits and 302 home runs and he hasn't even appeared in 2,000 games yet (as of this writing). But the man has 506 doubles, 1,229 runs batted in and 1,250 walks. He has a career .940 OPS! Sure his artificial numbers are small compared to the gaudy career totals most of us expect from a Hall-of-Famer, but Martinez just passed 300 career win shares (a good summary of the value of his overall production). And how much of that is due to his defense? Just 13 win shares. That means 287 of Martinez's 300 career win shares are attributable solely to his offense.

                        That's the 73rd best career offense in history. Only 72 players have contributed more with the bat in their career than Martinez did.

                        Throw in the fact that Martinez is the posterboy for his "archtype" and you've got a Hall-of-Fame caliber hitter who holds a unique place in history as the best designated hitter ever.

                        In my book, that's a Hall-of-Famer.
                        "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
                        "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
                        "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
                        "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

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                        • Edgar is very good at what he does and has been for a long time.

                          Edgar has been a mainstay for Seattle and one of its better homegrown rookies.

                          I feel one day he will be enshrined.

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                          • I've argued against Martinez for a long time, because his career numbers were too low to support a DH candidacy, despite his outstanding rate stats.

                            In fact, it's been such a long time that Edgar's built his career totals to the point where I retract my opposition.

                            Edgar should be the first primary DH in the Hall. Welcome to the club.

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                            • ? - where does he normally hit in the order?

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                              • Cougar, if you mean primary by "playing more games there", then Paul Molitor is already the first primary DH in the hall.

                                Oh ... and The Ignitor's the greatest DH ever.
                                He had 412 WS, and I'm not exactly sure on how many of those are Fielding WS, but I'm guessing at the most 25. No way will Martinez ever come close to (approximetly) 375 offensive WS.
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