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Barry Larkin

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  • #1

    Barry Larkin

    Is Barry a HOFer? He had some spectacular seasons, played great defense, and was one the most complete players of his time during his prime.

    What do you guys think?
    147
    Yes
    72.79%
    107
    No
    17.01%
    25
    No Clue
    10.20%
    15
    I share pictures from my collection of baseball photographs on twitter @PastimeClassics
    Tags: None
  • #2
    He's played in an era with Cal Ripken, Ozzie Smith, Nomar, A-Rod, and Jeter. Sorry, but no.

    Comment

    • #3
      Originally posted by BoSox Rule
      He's played in an era with Cal Ripken, Ozzie Smith, Nomar, A-Rod, and Jeter. Sorry, but no.
      Nomar, Arod, and Jeter began playing once Larkin was past his prime.
      I share pictures from my collection of baseball photographs on twitter @PastimeClassics

      Comment

      • #4
        Barry Larkin is:

        *11 time All-Star SS; unchallenged as the best NL SS of the 1990's.
        *Three time Gold Glove SS who will have played 2000 games at the position (29 to go)
        * MVP (1995)
        * Best player on a championship team (1990)
        * .338 average in the postseason, including .353 in the World Series and .387 in the 1995 postseason.
        * Meets 44% of typical HOF standards
        * Over 2200 hits, career BA of .295, OBP of .372
        * Just under 200 HR (189 at this writing) from the SS position (historically very good, even if that's all changing with the new wave). Also 418 doubles and counting, and 73 triples and counting. .447 career slugging percentage.
        * 376 SB at an 83% success rate.

        Without listing out all the shortstops in the HOF as of now, I'd say with a high degree of confidence that Larkin is probably clearly better than at least half of them. Only a lack of durability is keeping Larkin out of the no-brainer category; were he healthier, he'd have 300-400 more hits and probably a slightly higher BA. As is, Larkin was the best SS in his league for something like a 12-13 year span, from shortly after he entered the league to about 2000.

        He clearly deserves the Hall call. The only thing that may hurt him is that he was really a generalist; he did everything very well, but nothing incandescently well. People who don't look closely enough may miss how great Larkin really is.

        Larkin should go to the HOF. There's no question about it.

        Comment

        • #5
          Originally posted by Cougar
          Barry Larkin is:

          *11 time All-Star SS; unchallenged as the best NL SS of the 1990's.
          *Three time Gold Glove SS who will have played 2000 games at the position (29 to go)
          * MVP (1995)
          * Best player on a championship team (1990)
          * .338 average in the postseason, including .353 in the World Series and .387 in the 1995 postseason.
          * Meets 44% of typical HOF standards
          * Over 2200 hits, career BA of .295, OBP of .372
          * Just under 200 HR (189 at this writing) from the SS position (historically very good, even if that's all changing with the new wave). Also 418 doubles and counting, and 73 triples and counting. .447 career slugging percentage.
          * 376 SB at an 83% success rate.

          Without listing out all the shortstops in the HOF as of now, I'd say with a high degree of confidence that Larkin is probably clearly better than at least half of them. Only a lack of durability is keeping Larkin out of the no-brainer category; were he healthier, he'd have 300-400 more hits and probably a slightly higher BA. As is, Larkin was the best SS in his league for something like a 12-13 year span, from shortly after he entered the league to about 2000.

          He clearly deserves the Hall call. The only thing that may hurt him is that he was really a generalist; he did everything very well, but nothing incandescently well. People who don't look closely enough may miss how great Larkin really is.

          Larkin should go to the HOF. There's no question about it.
          Wow, my comment was VERY ignorant. I should have done my homework. Now, I say he's in.

          Comment

          • #6
            Thank you so much, Cougar. You saved me a whole lot of typing.
            http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploa...-showalter.gif

            Comment

            • #7
              Put those stats in the context of the time he played and they seem even better. He did not play his best years in the homer happy game we see now. Had he played today, that already impressive 30/30 season of 1995, may have turned into a 40+/30 season. He did win several gold gloves, but played spectacular defense even when he didn't win them. For most of the 90's he was the best shortstop in the NL and his All Star appearances prove that. He had a great combination of hitting for average, power, defense, speed, and clutch hitting. Even in his decline he keeps up with the clutch hits, last night hitting the game winner for the Reds. Earlier in the year he smashed a PH walkoff homer. If Larkin would have been able to stay healthy for these past few years, he would most likely have reached 2,500+ hits, almost guaranteeing him a place in the Hall.

              Not to use the lowest common denominator theory as reason for HOF election, but I believe Larkin was superior to the following enshrined shortstops:
              Rabbit Maranville
              Dave Bancroft
              Travis Jackson
              Phil Rizzuto
              Pee Wee Reese
              etc etc etc( I dont feel like researching right now)

              I am not saying that Larkin's numbers were just as good as these people and therefore he should be enshrined. Rather, I am pointing out that his numbers were DRASTICALLY better than many HOFers.
              I share pictures from my collection of baseball photographs on twitter @PastimeClassics

              Comment

              • #8
                Originally posted by Cougar
                Barry Larkin is:

                ** Best player on a championship team (1990)
                I question this one wouldn't the best player ona championship team have led his team in something

                the 1990 Reds were led
                In Runs, HR, and 2B by Chris Sabo
                In RBI and SLG by Eric Davis
                In BA and 3B by Mariano Duncan
                In SB and OBP Larkin did lead though he tied Billy Hatcher for the SB lead

                Larkin was 5th in OPS amongst Reds Starters that year.

                He has the best career of the Reds Players on that team but he wasn't the best team at least not clearly the best Sabo, Davis, O'Neil, and Duncan could all lay claim to that as could Tom Browning or Randy Myers
                GO CARDINALS!!!!

                Comment

                • #9
                  Certainly Larkin is at least arguably the best hitter. He led the team in hits, hit .301 in 614 AB (as opposed to Duncan hitting .306 in 435 AB). Other players had more power, true, but Larkin was the most reliable offensive player they had.

                  In addition, Larkin was:

                  * Definitely the most valuable fielder (gold glove caliber SS).

                  * Best baserunner (30 SB, SB% of 86%).

                  * Team captain.

                  With an ordinary shortstop...say, Walt Weiss (not to knock the guy, he's a nice complementary player) the Reds might have finished over .500, but weren't going to sniff the World Series.

                  With Larkin, they swept a dynastic A's team.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    He definitely deserves to go in. However, as Clint Eastwood said, "deserves got nothing to do with it". I can easily see the writers unfairly overlooking his accomplishments 5 years after he retires.

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Wouldn't surprise me either. As I said before, he's got that generalist problem, plus he'll be unfairly compared with the super-generation of shortstops today (as BoSox's knee jerk initial demonstration showed us -- good recovery BoSox! You learn better than most BBWAA writers.

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Cougar
                        Certainly Larkin is at least arguably the best hitter. He led the team in hits, hit .301 in 614 AB (as opposed to Duncan hitting .306 in 435 AB). Other players had more power, true, but Larkin was the most reliable offensive player they had.

                        In addition, Larkin was:

                        * Definitely the most valuable fielder (gold glove caliber SS).

                        * Best baserunner (30 SB, SB% of 86%).

                        * Team captain.

                        With an ordinary shortstop...say, Walt Weiss (not to knock the guy, he's a nice complementary player) the Reds might have finished over .500, but weren't going to sniff the World Series.

                        With Larkin, they swept a dynastic A's team.
                        Actually you could argue for Eric Davis who had an 87.5% success rate with SB and also was a GG caliber fielder 1990 was the first year in 4 seasons he didn't win a GG (even though he had his best Fielding percentage that year)


                        I would say that Larkin was not clearly the best player on the Reds in 1990 but rather just one of many talented players who came together and won a championship
                        GO CARDINALS!!!!

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          1990 Cincinnati Reds Win Shares
                          25 Barry Larkin
                          20 Chris Sabo
                          17 Eric Davis
                          17 Rob Dibble
                          17 Randy Myers
                          17 Jose Rijo
                          16 Paul O'Neill
                          15 Mariano Duncan
                          14 Norm Charlton
                          13 Tom Browning
                          12 Billy Hatcher
                          12 Joe Oliver
                          11 Hal Morris
                          10 Jack Armstrong

                          14 players with fewer than 10 win shares.
                          "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
                          "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
                          "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
                          "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            This from Baseball Library:

                            "Over the next several seasons, Larkin not only improved his play, but also grew into the role of team leader. In September of 1990, with the Reds struggling to close out the NL West title, he called a clubhouse meeting and ripped his teammates for coasting through the stretch run.

                            Some interesting stuff on that link, by the way.

                            Larkin was named the captain of the 1988 U.S. Barnstorming Tour of Japan.

                            Larkin hit .311 as a starter for the '84 Olympic Team.

                            MVP of the American Association in 1986.

                            August 17, 1986 was Larkin's first ML home run in the same game that was to be (player-manager) Pete Rose's last career game.
                            "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
                            "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
                            "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
                            "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Where Larkin Rates Among Shorstops...
                              20th in hits
                              12th in doubles
                              7th in home runs
                              19th in runs batted in
                              14th in runs scored
                              13th in stolen bases
                              12th in walks
                              6th all-time in extra-base hits
                              11th all-time in total bases

                              Among shortstops with at least as many PAs...
                              5th in batting average
                              3rd in on base percentage
                              3rd in slugging percentage
                              3rd in OPS
                              3rd in Isolated Power (ISO)
                              1st in Secondary Average (SEC)

                              Using runs created...
                              12th in RC
                              4th in RC/27
                              6th in RCAA
                              3rd in RCAP
                              "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
                              "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
                              "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
                              "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

                              Comment

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