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Should the HoF induct minor leaguers?

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Ashburn1
    No need to get angry.

    I think it does make a difference. You can't compare being banned by the majors to simply choosing not to come and play here. At any time Japan could have decided to let any of their players come over and play and they chose not to. The Negro League players were forced to remain in the minors, the Japanese players were not.
    How many Japanese players would have come over before, say, the 1970s anyway? For a little salary differential, into a completely different culture?
    Mythical SF Chronicle scouting report: "That Jeff runs like a deer. Unfortunately, he also hits AND throws like one." I am Venus DeMilo - NO ARM! I can play like a big leaguer, I can field like Luzinski, run like Lombardi. The secret to managing is keeping the ones who hate you away from the undecided ones. I am a triumph of quantity over quality. I'm almost useful, every village needs an idiot.
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    • #47
      Originally posted by Ashburn1
      No need to get angry.

      I think it does make a difference. You can't compare being banned by the majors to simply choosing not to come and play here. At any time Japan could have decided to let any of their players come over and play and they chose not to. The Negro League players were forced to remain in the minors, the Japanese players were not.
      I think the issue between the two is in your focus. If you look at it from the perspective of the player, like Matt and I do, the legal reasons behind why you aren't able to go mean very little. If you look at it from the perspective of the majors like you are, yes, there's a difference--but I submit it's more like having a thug break someone's legs rather than doing the dirty work yourself. The majors may not be as dirty in the case of the Japanese players as they were for the Negro Leaguers, but they sure as hell didn't have clean hands in the deal. I think such a distinction is a terrible basis for excluding Japanese players from Cooperstown.

      There were Japanese players who had a desire to go--Oh has said he would have, if he had had the opportunity. I think that at first only the greats of Japanese ball would have tried it--but none of them had the chance.

      Jim Albright
      Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
      Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
      A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Captain Cold Nose
        Not to ignore what is a solid issue, but the basketball HOF does not induct college players it and of themselves. They look at the entire career, college and pro, with the pro career being weighted to a much greater extent. Thus, players like Christian Laettner and Walter Berry will not get in.
        The minor league exhibit in Cooperstown is quite nice, incidentally.
        I think the more important issue when looking at the Basketball HOF is the way they treat foreigners.

        I know somewhere in this thread, someone made mention of the possible induction of foreign players as "forcing" them to honor these foreigners. My answer to that is, you honor who you want to, but if the Hall adopts the idea I suggest and basketball has already done and inducts foreign players, that's their decision. We don't have to regard George Kelly as anything more than an idiosyncratic choice of the Frankie Frisch-era Veteran's Committee if we so choose--but he's still in Cooperstown.

        Baseball is waking up to the idea of globalization, as with the World Baseball Classic, and it is my hope that Cooperstown will one day try to help baseball in that regard by inducting worthy foreign players.

        Jim Albright
        Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
        Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
        A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

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        • #49
          ^^^^^^ The Hall inducts foreigners who played MLB. I don't see why they can't extend that to those who don't play MLB
          "I think about baseball when I wake up in the morning. I think about it all day and I dream about it at night. The only time I don't think about it is when I'm playing it."
          Carl Yastrzemski

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          • #50
            Originally posted by runningshoes53
            ^^^^^^ The Hall inducts foreigners who played MLB. I don't see why they can't extend that to those who don't play MLB
            Because what country someone is from has nothing to do with it, only where they played.
            "You should enter a ballpark the way you enter a church." - Bill Spaceman Lee

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            • #51
              Considering that there is only a few minor leaguers in history who would really qualify for the HoF, I don't see how you can real make an actual arguement.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Naliamegod
                Considering that there is only a few minor leaguers in history who would really qualify for the HoF, I don't see how you can real make an actual arguement.
                Just lke they are very few Negro Leaguers in the HoF there should be very few minorleaguers and Japanese Leagers. I've already mentioned one, Joe Bauman. I hope we can discuss others as well.
                Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Ashburn1
                  No need to get angry.

                  I think it does make a difference. You can't compare being banned by the majors to simply choosing not to come and play here. At any time Japan could have decided to let any of their players come over and play and they chose not to. The Negro League players were forced to remain in the minors, the Japanese players were not.
                  You act as though Japanese players had a choice. They didn't.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Honus Wagner Rules
                    Just lke they are very few Negro Leaguers in the HoF there should be very few minorleaguers and Japanese Leagers. I've already mentioned one, Joe Bauman. I hope we can discuss others as well.
                    Why? I can understand an arguement for Japanese leagues (Same situation as Negro leaguers) but I see none for Minor Leaguers except maybe some elite players during the prime ages (Unless there was some rule I'm not aware of).
                    Last edited by Naliamegod; 01-31-2006, 06:40 PM.

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                    • #55
                      How about a seperate HOF for minor leaguers if there's not one already. In football ther's a pro football HOF and a college football HOF.
                      Yankees '09

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Honus Wagner Rules
                        Just lke they are very few Negro Leaguers in the HoF there should be very few minorleaguers and Japanese Leagers. I've already mentioned one, Joe Bauman. I hope we can discuss others as well.
                        If the idea is to only honor the very best players, I think Bauman is out--he didn't play long enough at higher level leagues. There might be a couple of PCL guys who might qualify, but frankly, 1) that isn't an area of great interest for me, and 2) I place the burden of proving those PCL (or other leagues) guys belong with the top 200 or so major leaguers ever on anyone who wants to advocate for them. I think it only fair the Japanese or Negro League players accept that burden, and if they must, so must others from outside the majors. And if no one here wants to take that challenge, that would pretty much tell you that at present the idea of such minor leaguers getting inducted into Cooperstown is even more of a pipe dream than my ideas about Japanese players (and that's saying a lot).

                        Jim Albright

                        Jim Albright
                        Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                        Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                        A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

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                        • #57
                          I know, the rules say, the major leagues. Are you so inflexible that the rules can't be changed?
                          They changed the rules to keep Rose out??
                          1968 and 1984, the greatest ever.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Tigerfan1974
                            I know, the rules say, the major leagues. Are you so inflexible that the rules can't be changed?
                            They changed the rules to keep Rose out??
                            THey didn't change any rules to keep Rose out. He's on the banned list, so he's not eligible. It's been the same since the Hall opened, hence Joe Jackson is not eligible.
                            I'm a Ramblin' Wreck from Georgia Tech and a Hell of an Engineer!

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by sschirmer
                              THey didn't change any rules to keep Rose out. He's on the banned list, so he's not eligible. It's been the same since the Hall opened, hence Joe Jackson is not eligible.
                              No, that is not true. When Rose was banned by MLB the HoF did NOT have any explicit written rules barring ineligible players from appearing on the HoF ballot. Written rules were never required because it was self-evident that the writers would not vote for players such as the Black Sox. However, Rose's case, at the time, was different. The evidence was not so persuasive, at that time, and there was a chance that Rose may have been elected. The HoF didn't want to raise the ire of MLB so they quickly changed their rules. Bill James wrote about this in his book, Politics of Glory.
                              Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Honus Wagner Rules
                                No, that is not true. When Rose was banned by MLB the HoF did NOT have any explicit written rules barring ineligible players from appearing on the HoF ballot. Written rules were never required because it was self-evident that the writers would not vote for players such as the Black Sox. However, Rose's case, at the time, was different. The evidence was not so persuasive, at that time, and there was a chance that Rose may have been elected. The HoF didn't want to raise the ire of MLB so they quickly changed their rules. Bill James wrote about this in his book, Politics of Glory.
                                Very interesting. Thanks for the info.
                                I'm a Ramblin' Wreck from Georgia Tech and a Hell of an Engineer!

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