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Should the HoF induct minor leaguers?

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  • Appling
    replied
    Career Minor Leaguers do not belong in the Cooperstown Hall of Fame.
    However, there could well be a separate "Minor League Hall of Fame" in a place far from Cooperstown, where some Career Minor League stars could be honored.

    Maybe like the "Softball Hall of Fame" here in Oklahoma City!

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  • sschirmer
    replied
    Originally posted by Honus Wagner Rules
    No, that is not true. When Rose was banned by MLB the HoF did NOT have any explicit written rules barring ineligible players from appearing on the HoF ballot. Written rules were never required because it was self-evident that the writers would not vote for players such as the Black Sox. However, Rose's case, at the time, was different. The evidence was not so persuasive, at that time, and there was a chance that Rose may have been elected. The HoF didn't want to raise the ire of MLB so they quickly changed their rules. Bill James wrote about this in his book, Politics of Glory.
    Very interesting. Thanks for the info.

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  • Honus Wagner Rules
    replied
    Originally posted by sschirmer
    THey didn't change any rules to keep Rose out. He's on the banned list, so he's not eligible. It's been the same since the Hall opened, hence Joe Jackson is not eligible.
    No, that is not true. When Rose was banned by MLB the HoF did NOT have any explicit written rules barring ineligible players from appearing on the HoF ballot. Written rules were never required because it was self-evident that the writers would not vote for players such as the Black Sox. However, Rose's case, at the time, was different. The evidence was not so persuasive, at that time, and there was a chance that Rose may have been elected. The HoF didn't want to raise the ire of MLB so they quickly changed their rules. Bill James wrote about this in his book, Politics of Glory.

    Leave a comment:


  • sschirmer
    replied
    Originally posted by Tigerfan1974
    I know, the rules say, the major leagues. Are you so inflexible that the rules can't be changed?
    They changed the rules to keep Rose out??
    THey didn't change any rules to keep Rose out. He's on the banned list, so he's not eligible. It's been the same since the Hall opened, hence Joe Jackson is not eligible.

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  • Tigerfan1974
    replied
    I know, the rules say, the major leagues. Are you so inflexible that the rules can't be changed?
    They changed the rules to keep Rose out??

    Leave a comment:


  • jalbright
    replied
    Originally posted by Honus Wagner Rules
    Just lke they are very few Negro Leaguers in the HoF there should be very few minorleaguers and Japanese Leagers. I've already mentioned one, Joe Bauman. I hope we can discuss others as well.
    If the idea is to only honor the very best players, I think Bauman is out--he didn't play long enough at higher level leagues. There might be a couple of PCL guys who might qualify, but frankly, 1) that isn't an area of great interest for me, and 2) I place the burden of proving those PCL (or other leagues) guys belong with the top 200 or so major leaguers ever on anyone who wants to advocate for them. I think it only fair the Japanese or Negro League players accept that burden, and if they must, so must others from outside the majors. And if no one here wants to take that challenge, that would pretty much tell you that at present the idea of such minor leaguers getting inducted into Cooperstown is even more of a pipe dream than my ideas about Japanese players (and that's saying a lot).

    Jim Albright

    Jim Albright

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  • Yankee Legend
    replied
    How about a seperate HOF for minor leaguers if there's not one already. In football ther's a pro football HOF and a college football HOF.

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  • Naliamegod
    replied
    Originally posted by Honus Wagner Rules
    Just lke they are very few Negro Leaguers in the HoF there should be very few minorleaguers and Japanese Leagers. I've already mentioned one, Joe Bauman. I hope we can discuss others as well.
    Why? I can understand an arguement for Japanese leagues (Same situation as Negro leaguers) but I see none for Minor Leaguers except maybe some elite players during the prime ages (Unless there was some rule I'm not aware of).
    Last edited by Naliamegod; 01-31-2006, 06:40 PM.

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  • SABR Matt
    replied
    Originally posted by Ashburn1
    No need to get angry.

    I think it does make a difference. You can't compare being banned by the majors to simply choosing not to come and play here. At any time Japan could have decided to let any of their players come over and play and they chose not to. The Negro League players were forced to remain in the minors, the Japanese players were not.
    You act as though Japanese players had a choice. They didn't.

    Leave a comment:


  • Honus Wagner Rules
    replied
    Originally posted by Naliamegod
    Considering that there is only a few minor leaguers in history who would really qualify for the HoF, I don't see how you can real make an actual arguement.
    Just lke they are very few Negro Leaguers in the HoF there should be very few minorleaguers and Japanese Leagers. I've already mentioned one, Joe Bauman. I hope we can discuss others as well.

    Leave a comment:


  • Naliamegod
    replied
    Considering that there is only a few minor leaguers in history who would really qualify for the HoF, I don't see how you can real make an actual arguement.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ashburn1
    replied
    Originally posted by runningshoes53
    ^^^^^^ The Hall inducts foreigners who played MLB. I don't see why they can't extend that to those who don't play MLB
    Because what country someone is from has nothing to do with it, only where they played.

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  • runningshoes
    replied
    ^^^^^^ The Hall inducts foreigners who played MLB. I don't see why they can't extend that to those who don't play MLB

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  • jalbright
    replied
    Originally posted by Captain Cold Nose
    Not to ignore what is a solid issue, but the basketball HOF does not induct college players it and of themselves. They look at the entire career, college and pro, with the pro career being weighted to a much greater extent. Thus, players like Christian Laettner and Walter Berry will not get in.
    The minor league exhibit in Cooperstown is quite nice, incidentally.
    I think the more important issue when looking at the Basketball HOF is the way they treat foreigners.

    I know somewhere in this thread, someone made mention of the possible induction of foreign players as "forcing" them to honor these foreigners. My answer to that is, you honor who you want to, but if the Hall adopts the idea I suggest and basketball has already done and inducts foreign players, that's their decision. We don't have to regard George Kelly as anything more than an idiosyncratic choice of the Frankie Frisch-era Veteran's Committee if we so choose--but he's still in Cooperstown.

    Baseball is waking up to the idea of globalization, as with the World Baseball Classic, and it is my hope that Cooperstown will one day try to help baseball in that regard by inducting worthy foreign players.

    Jim Albright

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  • jalbright
    replied
    Originally posted by Ashburn1
    No need to get angry.

    I think it does make a difference. You can't compare being banned by the majors to simply choosing not to come and play here. At any time Japan could have decided to let any of their players come over and play and they chose not to. The Negro League players were forced to remain in the minors, the Japanese players were not.
    I think the issue between the two is in your focus. If you look at it from the perspective of the player, like Matt and I do, the legal reasons behind why you aren't able to go mean very little. If you look at it from the perspective of the majors like you are, yes, there's a difference--but I submit it's more like having a thug break someone's legs rather than doing the dirty work yourself. The majors may not be as dirty in the case of the Japanese players as they were for the Negro Leaguers, but they sure as hell didn't have clean hands in the deal. I think such a distinction is a terrible basis for excluding Japanese players from Cooperstown.

    There were Japanese players who had a desire to go--Oh has said he would have, if he had had the opportunity. I think that at first only the greats of Japanese ball would have tried it--but none of them had the chance.

    Jim Albright

    Leave a comment:

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