Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Should the HoF induct minor leaguers?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Should the HoF induct minor leaguers?

    I've always wondered about his. The HoF is call the National Baseball HoF. "Minor" League baseball has a long and storied history and tradition as well. Should the baseball HoF have a special subsection for great minor leaguers of the past? Would that diminish the HoF stature of major league HoFers? The HoF is in it's essence a museum. Shouldn't it capture the history of all baseball and not just major league baseball? What say you BBF?
    Last edited by Honus Wagner Rules; 01-31-2006, 01:52 PM. Reason: typo
    Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

  • #2
    If you could prove some of these guys were as great as deserving HOF players, maybe--but the problem will be making that proof. Beyond that, there should be museum displays about the minors, but I'm not in favor of inducting guys just because they were notable minor leaguers.

    Jim Albright
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

    Comment


    • #3
      i think minor leaguers would be much more interested in joining the union and getting at least some sort of benefits - instead of a kick to the curb and no college education at the end

      Comment


      • #4
        --What JIm said. I think you can make a fairly good argument that there were a handfull of guys who played their career in the minors (particularly the PCL) who were better than some Hall of Famers. For example, Buzz Arlett was very possibly better than Chick Hafey. That argument only works in comparison to the clear mistake inductees though and is a flimsy one at that. Being possibly better than Hafey is NOT reason to get inducted. There are alot of players definately better who are outside looking in.
        --BK, I'm sure the minor leaguers would love to have a pension or education fund and it would be nice if MLB offered it. Nice, but not essential. The kids who go straight to the minors from high school should have a pretty good idea by their early 20s if they have a legitimate chance at making the show. How many employers offer a pension to kids who work a few years for them out of high school? For the college kids, it just a first job out of school. In every field you are likely to try a few things before you find your niche. I know my first job out of college didn't set me up for life.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by jalbright
          If you could prove some of these guys were as great as deserving HOF players, maybe--but the problem will be making that proof. Beyond that, there should be museum displays about the minors, but I'm not in favor of inducting guys just because they were notable minor leaguers.

          Jim Albright
          It think it depends on the purpose of the Baseball HoF. Is it it honor the best major leaguers only or is it to capture and preserve the entire history of baseball? The National Basketball Hall of Fame is not just for NBA players. It inducts NBA players, college players, female players, and international players. It is trying to perserve basketball's entire history.
          Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

          Comment


          • #6
            Mark,

            Thanks for amplifying a point I should have made clearer--I'm definitely talking about guys who are above the clear mistakes of the Hall. I also was thinking primarily of the PCL as a possible source for such an inductee. Let's just say I'd use the same kinds of standards for PCL (or other minor leagues) conversions as I have tried to use for my own advocacy of Japanese players. One thing that would make it especially tough for the minor league guys is that a lot of them played at least some in the majors--and didn't demonstrate HOF caliber play. There may well be reasons for that, but it is sure going to make proving the guy worthy that much harder. See Willard Brown for a Negro League example of the same issue.

            Jim Albright
            Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
            Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
            A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Honus Wagner Rules
              It think it depends on the purpose of the Baseball HoF. Is it it honor the best major leaguers only or is it to capture and preserve the entire history of baseball? The National Basketball Hall of Fame is not just for NBA players. It inducts NBA players, college players, female players, and international players. It is trying to perserve basketball's entire history.
              The best minor league players?
              The best contributors?
              The best broadcasters?

              The best players make it to the bigs for the most part, so do we induct the best players in the minors even if they craped out when they made it to the show?

              Contributors and broadcasters should certainly be considered for enshrinement.
              "I think about baseball when I wake up in the morning. I think about it all day and I dream about it at night. The only time I don't think about it is when I'm playing it."
              Carl Yastrzemski

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Honus Wagner Rules
                It think it depends on the purpose of the Baseball HoF. Is it it honor the best major leaguers only or is it to capture and preserve the entire history of baseball? The National Basketball Hall of Fame is not just for NBA players. It inducts NBA players, college players, female players, and international players. It is trying to perserve basketball's entire history.
                I think Cooperstown has answered that question at least to the degree it will forever only be interested in honoring the best of professional baseball. To date, it adds the requirements that those players have played in North America in either the majors or the Negro Leagues. My own opinion is that the first place to expand the requirements is toward the first sentence of this paragraph rather than to pick up the women's league or the college game or even minor leaguers who cannot stand with at least the solid choices among the group already enshrined.

                Jim Albright
                Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I've never been the Baseball HoF. Does it have minor league exhibits?
                  Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Honus Wagner Rules
                    It think it depends on the purpose of the Baseball HoF. Is it it honor the best major leaguers only or is it to capture and preserve the entire history of baseball? The National Basketball Hall of Fame is not just for NBA players. It inducts NBA players, college players, female players, and international players. It is trying to perserve basketball's entire history.
                    I agree with HWR. Let's include the Minors. Maybe even college, and the Women's league from the 40's and 50's.
                    It is the National Baseball Hall of Fame, not the Major League Hall of Fame.

                    Now, I would draw the line at including any International Leagues. Although players that come here would be fione, like Marichal, Cepeda and other yet to come!!
                    1968 and 1984, the greatest ever.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Do I understand you correctly that you'd induct Buzz Arlett or similar players, and maybe women's baseball players and/or players solely for their collegiate exploits yet exclude Sadaharu Oh, Masaichi Kaneda, Katsuya Nomura, Shigeo Nagashima, all of whom could blow the doors off these other inductees on the diamond? It wasn't like the guys I'm talking about had a lot of opportunity to come--the majors and the Japanese leagues had a contract from about 1965 on which served to lock Japanese players in Japan for the next 30 years.

                      I'm hardly a fan of the "National" Baseball HOF argument to begin with, but if I understand you correctly this states that argument in its starkest possible form. Beyond that, I submit that including international players is good for a) the game itself and b) for Cooperstown.

                      Jim Albright
                      Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                      Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                      A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The HoF is only for major leaguers and at this date should be left at that. Attempting to add minor leaguers is simply too difficult. As for international players one only hopes that the people who are in favor of it come to their senses. I do not expect other countries to honor U.S. players they've never heard and they shouldn't expect that I honor theirs.
                        Buck O'Neil: The Monarch of Baseball

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by KCGHOST
                          The HoF is only for major leaguers and at this date should be left at that. Attempting to add minor leaguers is simply too difficult. As for international players one only hopes that the people who are in favor of it come to their senses. I do not expect other countries to honor U.S. players they've never heard and they shouldn't expect that I honor theirs.
                          But why must it be only for major leaguers? That's the key question. It wouldn't be that difficult to add minor league players. We have tons of historical research to look at.

                          If the HoF is about documenting baseball's entire history shouldn't it not include everything? As I stated before the Basketball HoF is not only for NBA players but all basketball players.
                          Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by KCGHOST
                            The HoF is only for major leaguers and at this date should be left at that. Attempting to add minor leaguers is simply too difficult. As for international players one only hopes that the people who are in favor of it come to their senses. I do not expect other countries to honor U.S. players they've never heard and they shouldn't expect that I honor theirs.
                            Gee, insults are so constructive! Who cares what other countries do or don't do? Cooperstown likes to pretend it has all the greatest players, yet excludes Japanese players. They should either embrace the idea of having all the greatest players, no matter where they come from, or clearly acknowledge that the Hall has parochial limits on it.

                            I maintain that honoring all the greatest players (those who either succeeded at the major level or can be shown extremely likely to have done so) would be good for the game and Cooperstown. I do not think that idea that such inductions would be good for the game and Cooperstown is far-fetched--only trying it would prove me right or wrong. The devil, as always, is in the details of who to honor if we get that far. I suspect a panel on the order of what is being done for the Negro Leaguers this year would be the proper approach.

                            Jim Albright
                            Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                            Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                            A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              People talk about international leagues or minor leagues like they are somehow equal to major league baseball. They're not.

                              I would argue that any PCL players good enough to be in the HOF made it to the majors. Were Sadaharu Oh or Buzz Arlett as good as some HOFers? Maybe, but we'll never know because they never played a good enough level of competition to prove it. It's not the "Hall of what might have been".

                              This idea that the Japanese league is anywhere close to the level of major league baseball is absurd.
                              "You should enter a ballpark the way you enter a church." - Bill Spaceman Lee

                              Comment

                              Ad Widget

                              Collapse
                              Working...
                              X