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The Hall of Mistakes, Election #18

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  • The Hall of Mistakes, Election #18

    The Hall of Fame is never going to identify its mistakes, so it’s up to us. This is the 18th in a series of polls to set up a new wing in the Coop. We want to isolate the players that don’t reach the HOF’s minimum standards, so that they will not be used as examples for arguing that a similar player deserves enshrinement. We’ll elect one mistake at a time. These are our first 17 dishonorees, by position:

    C - Rick Ferrell, Ray Schalk
    1B - George Kelly
    2B - none
    3B - Fred Lindstrom
    SS - Travis Jackson, Joe Tinker
    LF - Chick Hafey
    CF - Lloyd Waner, Earle Combs
    RF - Tommy McCarthy, Ross Youngs
    P - Rube Marquard, Jesse Haines, Chief Bender, Herb Pennock, Jack Chesbro, Waite Hoyt

    Over on the History forum they’re running polls using the MVP voting format, voting for 10 guys in rank order, with points assigned 12,9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1. Let’s use that method. Your worst hall of fame player will be voted #1, the next worst #2, down to your 10th worst. The player with the most total points at the end of the poll (probably about a week) will hereafter be designated as a Mistake. We will follow with another thread to identify the next worst player, and so on. We’ll continue until we’ve voted out 15% of the Coop’s 213 players (32 guys; this could increase to 33 if at least four players from Black baseball are elected in 2006).

    Players classified by the HOF as Pioneers/Managers/Executives/Umpires (e.g., Candy Cummings) are not eligible for this election. However, be aware that the 17 Negro league players are included - they are fair game for labeling as Mistakes.

    We will use the Hall’s criteria in deciding player’s merit. That means you should take into account the sum total of the man’s contributions both on and off the field. For example, Tommy McCarthy is probably the worst player in the Hall stat-wise. However, he was elected as much for being an innovator, a pioneer and a winning player as he was for his production as a player.

    Or Hughie Jennings. He has one of the shortest playing careers in the Hall. However, he was also a successful manager in addition to being the central player on a team often cited as the best of the 19th century. Frank Chance has a similar profile.

    So, voters will have to decide how much weight to give non-playing accomplishments. It should be interesting, as voters will need to consider more than just stats.

    A couple threads in this forum suggest candidates for voting out. (Underlined players are still active candidates.) The “Upper/Lower Hall of Fame Vote” thread has my list of who I think are the worst 76 players in the Hall. The poll under “Veterans Committee Mistakes” has the 26 worst players being Haines, T.Jackson, Lindstrom, Chesbro, Combs, Marquard, L. Waner, R. Ferrell, Hafey, Youngs, Hooper, G.Kelly, Tinker, Bottomley, Evers, Bancroft, Schoendienst, Rizzuto, Schalk, Lazzeri, Kell, Manush, Bender, Hoyt, Beckley and Wilson. (That poll did not include McCarthy, Willis or Chance.) There is also some good discussion from last spring in the thread “Weak HOFers”. Finally, in the thread "5 Tier HOF (v. 2) - The Admirable & Borderline" from 2003, the bottom 25 were identified (alphabetically) as Bancroft, Bottomley, Bresnahan, Chance, Chesbro, Combs, Evers, Ferrell, Hafey, Haines, Hoyt, T.Jackson, G.Kelly, Lindstrom, Maranville, Marquard, Mazeroski, McCarthy, Pennock, Rizzuto, Schalk, Schoendienst, Tinker, L.Waner, and Youngs.

    With Lindstrom, Kelly, McCarthy, Marquard, Haines, Waner, T. Jackson, Ferrell, Youngs, Bender, Hafey, Pennock, Combs, Chesbro, Hoyt, Tinker and Schalk no longer eligible, here's my list of the next ten to vote out:

    1.Kell G
    3.Johnson J
    Si quaeris peninsulam amoenam, circumspice.

    Comprehensive Reform for the Veterans Committee -- Fixing the Hall continued.

  • #2
    1. Schoendienst
    2. Fingers
    3. Perez, Tony
    4. Johnson, J.
    5. Bottomley
    6. Rizzuto
    7. Mazeroski
    8. Evers
    9. Bresnahan
    10. Hooper
    Buck O'Neil: The Monarch of Baseball


    • #3
      Many precincts are slow reporting in this week. Maybe they were "super"-ceded by another event. We hope that leecemark, 538280, egautographs and others get a chance to check in. In any case, here is the consensus ballot from the last election:

      1.Johnson J
      Si quaeris peninsulam amoenam, circumspice.

      Comprehensive Reform for the Veterans Committee -- Fixing the Hall continued.


      • #4
        1) Judy Johnson
        2) Jim Bottomley
        3) Vic Willis
        4) Red Schoendienst
        5) Bruce Sutter
        6) Dave Bancroft
        7) Phil Rizzuto
        8) Ernie Lombardi
        9) Harry Hooper
        10) Tony Perez


        • #5
          1.Judy Johnson
          2.Vic Willis
          3.Red Schoendienst
          4.Eppa Rixey
          5.Heinie Manush
          6.George Kell
          7.Jim Bottomley
          8.Harry Hooper
          9.Dave Bancroft
          10.Phil Rizzuto


          • #6
            Results, Election #18

            Condolences to our first (and worst) Negro leaguer, Judy Johnson, who easily becomes the 18th member of the Hall of Mistakes. He joins Fred Lindstrom, George Kelly, Tommy McCarthy, Rube Marquard, Jesse Haines, Lloyd Waner, Travis Jackson, Rick Ferrell, Ross Youngs, Chief Bender, Chick Hafey, Herb Pennock, Earle Combs, Jack Chesbro, Waite Hoyt, Joe Tinker and Ray Schalk. Bottomley and Schoendienst are the clear favorites for the next election.

            Here are the full results for the 18th election:
            Pts	1st	Bal	Top 10 Players
            51	3	5	Judy Johnson
            37	0	5	Jim Bottomley
            36	1	5	Red Schoendienst
            31	0	4	Vic Willis
            22	1	3	George Kell
            17	0	4	Dave Bancroft
            14	0	4	Phil Rizzuto
            13	0	5	Harry Hooper
            12	0	2	Rollie Fingers
            12	0	2	Manush
            			the rest
            10	0	3	Perez
            7	0	1	Rixey
            6	0	2	Mazeroski
            6	0	2	Evers
            6	0	1	Sutter
            3	0	1	Lombardi
            2	0	1	Bresnahan
            Si quaeris peninsulam amoenam, circumspice.

            Comprehensive Reform for the Veterans Committee -- Fixing the Hall continued.


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