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  • Sandberg or Biggio

    Who is the better OVERALL player? from fielding to hitting to team player, to hall of fame potential...

    I am having a loud discusion with a friend, and even though I live in Houston, I still think Ryan was better overall. 2 fewer season up until now, and better numbers...

    Thanks gang,

    Joey

  • #2
    Sounds like a great argument - but I'm taking Biggio because you have to consider that not only was Biggio a great 2B, but he also came up as a catcher and is now out in CF - 2 of the toughest positions in baseball!

    And it's not like *Ryne* was that much of a better hitter. Here is a side by side comparision...

    -------------G-----H---2B---3B--HR---SB--AVG--OBP--SLG---FLD--RC

    Sandberg: 2124--2386--403--76--282--344--.285--.344--.452--.989--1311

    Biggio: ---2253--2461--517--51--210--389--.287--.375--.432--.986--1350
    Conor Glassey

    "The secret of managing is to keep the guys who hate you away from the guys who are undecided."
    -Casey Stengel

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    • #3
      Originally posted by MikeCameronFAN
      Sounds like a great argument - but I'm taking Biggio because you have to consider that not only was Biggio a great 2B, but he also came up as a catcher and is now out in CF - 2 of the toughest positions in baseball!

      And it's not like *Ryne* was that much of a better hitter. Here is a side by side comparision...

      -------------G-----H---2B---3B--HR---SB--AVG--OBP--SLG---FLD--RC

      Sandberg: 2124--2386--403--76--282--344--.285--.344--.452--.989--1311

      Biggio: ---2253--2461--517--51--210--389--.287--.375--.432--.986--1350

      2 things 2 remember, RYNE played in 2 fewer seasons up until this point, and BIGGIO sucked in the post-season. Sandberg EXCELLED!!!

      Check out these 2 links:

      Biggio's CAREER playoff numbers are:
      54 AB, batted .130, 1 RBI, 10 SO, 6 BB, etc. etc. http://www.sports-wired.com/players/...p?Name=HJD&N=Q

      Sandberg's CAREER playoff numbers are:
      39 AB, batted .385, 7 RBI, 6 SO, 6 BB, etc, etc. http://www.sports-wired.com/players/...Name=BHFED&N=Q

      My vote is for Sandberg!!!

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by jrappaport
        2 things 2 remember, RYNE played in 2 fewer seasons up until this point, and BIGGIO sucked in the post-season. Sandberg EXCELLED!!!

        Check out these 2 links:

        Biggio's CAREER playoff numbers are:
        54 AB, batted .130, 1 RBI, 10 SO, 6 BB, etc. etc. http://www.sports-wired.com/players/...p?Name=HJD&N=Q

        Sandberg's CAREER playoff numbers are:
        39 AB, batted .385, 7 RBI, 6 SO, 6 BB, etc, etc. http://www.sports-wired.com/players/...Name=BHFED&N=Q

        My vote is for Sandberg!!!
        Post-season performance is hardly an indicator of greatness. Ted Williams, Ty Cobb, and up until a couple years ago, Barry Bonds all struggled in post-season play.

        Is Lou Brock a better player because he played so well in the World Series?

        I give a very slight edge to Sandberg, because he was such a dominant player at his position. Biggio does many things very well, and it's close. The transition from catcher to second to center looks good on his resume.
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        • #5
          Sandberg, and this comes from a Cardinal fan. Sandberg won a MVP award, and he was the best secondbase man in baseball for a decade. I rank him above Biggio and Alomar. He should be in the Hall of Fame right now.

          In some ways, the Cubs missed used Sandberg by most often batting him second. He could have had more RBIs in a different part of the order.

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          • #6
            how much better was ryno defensively?
            I share pictures from my collection of baseball photographs on twitter @PastimeClassics

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            • #7
              I'd pick Sandberg. That said, where does Alomar rate in this discussion?

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              • #8
                One vote for Sandberg; no slight on Biggio.

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                • #9
                  I as well think Alomar vs. Sanderg is a better comparison. Relatively quietly, we may arguably have seen the two best all-around second basemen in history in the last 20 years (I have no idea what kind of defense guys like Hornsby and Lajoie played). The power and runs scored numbers were about equal, Alomar had better avg, obp, slugging and base stealing, but Ryno played in more of a pitchers era and he has the 1984 MVP. Both were among the best defensive 2bmen ever as. There careers are actually very similar.

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                  • #10
                    Both Sandberg and Biggio won gold gloves. Sandberg has been criticized for a lack of range. He didn't make errors, but he didn't get to balls that other secondbasemen did.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by yankees2004
                      I'd pick Sandberg. That said, where does Alomar rate in this discussion?

                      A much better spitter!
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                      • #12
                        IMO, there are six 1977-current middle infielders who deserve to eventually be in the HOF, not including Ozzie Smith who is already in. In order of how I rate them, here they are....

                        1) Cal Ripken Jr.
                        2) Roberto Alomar
                        3) Ryne Sandberg
                        4) Barry Larkin
                        5) Craig Biggio
                        6) Alan Trammell

                        If you look at Alomar's numbers and accomplishments and say he's a HOF'er, you have to allow for Larkin. Their career stats are almost identical when broken down to a level AB comparison. Trammell gets lost in these debates, but he compares well to the rest of the group.

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                        • #13
                          Very tough call on this one... neither Alomar nor Biggio are done yet, remember that, but neither of them look like they're going to return to dominance anytime soon.

                          If Alomar gets back on track in Arizona and picks up his 3000th hit in two years time, he'll have to rank ahead of Sandberg in my book no question. Ryne didn't have that kind of lasting power.

                          I'm going to take Sandberg ahead of Biggio because I remember him as a slightly more important figure in his timeframe... both have 3 top tens in MVP voting, but Sandberg is 1-4-4, whereas Biggio is 4-5-10. But again he's not finished either; we'll have to see how long he can be a viable major leaguer. I expect he will never have another good season, and will have to hang it up shortly, in which case, he will be a better comparison to Sandberg than Alomar will.
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                          • #14
                            Alomar, Biggio and Sandberg are all equal. I'd give Alomar a slight nod over Biggio, who in turn just edges out Sandberg. It's so close though, I wouldn't bet a dime on that being the correct order.

                            I would suspect Joe Fan to rank them in this order: Sandberg, Alomar, Biggio.

                            All three are no-brainer Hall of Famers in my book.
                            "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
                            "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
                            "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
                            "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

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                            • #15
                              Sandberg's in now, and he should be. Alomar will go, as will Biggio, although the HOF electors have been erratic in voting in second basemen, creating a huge gray area.

                              Biggio's still in there, still at 2B, still adding to his totals. It's a little unlikely that Biggio will get to 300 HRs; he'll have to pick up his pace this year and play two more years in order to do so. That's going to be hard at his age (40).

                              I rate Biggio ahead of all of these guys on career value. I give Sandberg a slight nod over Alomar on peak value. Sandberg SHOULD have been the MVP in 1990 over Barry Bonds (although Bonds should have been the MVP over Terry Pendleton in 1991). It should be noted, however, that while Alomar gets negative write-ups for personality issues, he's the only one of these three to play on a champion (twice).
                              "I do not care if half the league strikes. Those who do it will encounter quick retribution. All will be suspended and I don't care if it wrecks the National League for five years. This is the United States of America and one citizen has as much right to play as another. The National League will go down the line with Robinson whatever the consequences. You will find if you go through with your intention that you have been guilty of complete madness."

                              NL President Ford Frick, 1947

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