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The Hall of Mistakes, Election #20

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  • The Hall of Mistakes, Election #20

    The Hall of Fame is never going to identify its mistakes, so it’s up to us. This is the 20th in a series of polls to set up a new wing in the Coop. I've picked up the pace a bit, electing two players for the next two elections, then three players for the last three elections, to get us up to 33 players.

    We want to isolate the players that don’t reach the HOF’s minimum standards, so that they will not be used as examples for arguing that a similar player deserves enshrinement. We’ll elect one mistake at a time. These are our first 20 dishonorees, by position:

    C - Rick Ferrell, Ray Schalk
    1B - George Kelly, Jim Bottomley
    2B - Red Schoendienst
    3B - Fred Lindstrom, Judy Johnson
    SS - Travis Jackson, Joe Tinker
    LF - Chick Hafey
    CF - Lloyd Waner, Earle Combs
    RF - Tommy McCarthy, Ross Youngs
    P - Rube Marquard, Jesse Haines, Chief Bender, Herb Pennock, Jack Chesbro, Waite Hoyt

    Over on the History forum they’re running polls using the MVP voting format, voting for 10 guys in rank order, with points assigned 12,9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1. Let’s use that method, but make the 2nd place vote worth 11 points. Your worst hall of fame player will be voted #1, the next worst #2, down to your 10th worst. The player with the most total points at the end of the poll (probably about a week) will hereafter be designated as a Mistake. We will follow with another thread to identify the next worst player, and so on. We’ll continue until we’ve voted out 15% of the Coop’s 213 players (32 guys; this could increase to 33 if at least four players from Black baseball are elected in 2006).

    Players classified by the HOF as Pioneers/Managers/Executives/Umpires (e.g., Candy Cummings) are not eligible for this election. However, be aware that the 17 Negro league players are included - they are fair game for labeling as Mistakes.

    We will use the Hall’s criteria in deciding player’s merit. That means you should take into account the sum total of the man’s contributions both on and off the field. For example, Tommy McCarthy is probably the worst player in the Hall stat-wise. However, he was elected as much for being an innovator, a pioneer and a winning player as he was for his production as a player.

    Or Hughie Jennings. He has one of the shortest playing careers in the Hall. However, he was also a successful manager in addition to being the central player on a team often cited as the best of the 19th century. Frank Chance has a similar profile.

    So, voters will have to decide how much weight to give non-playing accomplishments. It should be interesting, as voters will need to consider more than just stats.

    A couple threads in this forum suggest candidates for voting out. (Underlined players are still active candidates.) The “Upper/Lower Hall of Fame Vote” thread has my list of who I think are the worst 76 players in the Hall. The poll under “Veterans Committee Mistakes” has the 26 worst players being Haines, T.Jackson, Lindstrom, Chesbro, Combs, Marquard, L. Waner, R. Ferrell, Hafey, Youngs, Hooper, G.Kelly, Tinker, Bottomley, Evers, Bancroft, Schoendienst, Rizzuto, Schalk, Lazzeri, Kell, Manush, Bender, Hoyt, Beckley and Wilson. (That poll did not include McCarthy, Willis or Chance.) There is also some good discussion from last spring in the thread “Weak HOFers”. Finally, in the thread "5 Tier HOF (v. 2) - The Admirable & Borderline" from 2003, the bottom 25 were identified (alphabetically) as Bancroft, Bottomley, Bresnahan, Chance, Chesbro, Combs, Evers, Ferrell, Hafey, Haines, Hoyt, T.Jackson, G.Kelly, Lindstrom, Maranville, Marquard, Mazeroski, McCarthy, Pennock, Rizzuto, Schalk, Schoendienst, Tinker, L.Waner, and Youngs.

    With Lindstrom, Kelly, McCarthy, Marquard, Haines, Waner, T. Jackson, Ferrell, Youngs, Bender, Hafey, Pennock, Combs, Chesbro, Hoyt, Tinker, Schalk, Johnson, Bottomley and Schoendienst no longer eligible, here's my list of the next ten to vote out:

    1.Kell G
    8.Day L
    Si quaeris peninsulam amoenam, circumspice.

    Comprehensive Reform for the Veterans Committee -- Fixing the Hall continued.

  • #2
    1.Vic Willis
    2.Eppa Rixey
    3.Heinie Manush
    4.George Kell
    5.Harry Hooper
    6.Dave Bancroft
    7.Phil Rizzuto
    8.Catfish Hunter
    9.Kiki Cuyler
    10.Hugh Duffy


    • #3
      1. Fingers
      2. Perez, Tony
      3. Rizzuto
      4. Mazeroski
      5. Evers
      6. Bresnahan
      7. Hooper
      8. Bancroft
      9. Willis
      10. Rixey
      Buck O'Neil: The Monarch of Baseball


      • #4
        Looking at the players already voted in, it dawned on me that the list of player is mostly a list of ElHalo's favorite all-time players. A coincidence?
        Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis


        • #5
          Hey, this is my 900th post.

          Speaking of El Halo, he was a regular voter here for a time. If he or anyone else want to toss in their list of the 21st through 30th worst players in the HOF, you still have a day or two.
          Si quaeris peninsulam amoenam, circumspice.

          Comprehensive Reform for the Veterans Committee -- Fixing the Hall continued.


          • #6
            1. Phil Rizzuto
            2. Harry Hooper
            3. George Kell
            4. Dave Bancroft
            5. Bill Mazeroski
            6. Johnny Evers
            7. Burliegh Grimes
            8. Eppa Rixey
            9. Vic Willis
            10. Catfish Hunter
            Last edited by Bothrops Atrox; 02-20-2006, 10:07 AM.
            1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

            1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

            1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015

            The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
            The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History


            • #7
              Results, Election #20

              Condolences to George Kell and Vic Willis, who become the 21st and 22nd members of the Hall of Mistakes. They join Fred Lindstrom, George Kelly, Tommy McCarthy, Rube Marquard, Jesse Haines, Lloyd Waner, Travis Jackson, Rick Ferrell, Ross Youngs, Chief Bender, Chick Hafey, Herb Pennock, Earle Combs, Jack Chesbro, Waite Hoyt, Joe Tinker, Ray Schalk, Judy Johnson, Red Schoendienst and Jim Bottomley. Hooper, Rizzuto and Bancroft are the front-runners for the next election.

              Here are the full results for the 20th election:
              Pts	1st	Bal	Top 10 Players
              39	2	4	George Kell
              38	1	5	Vic Willis
              36	0	5	Harry Hooper
              32	1	5	Phil Rizzuto
              25	0	5	Dave Bancroft
              22	0	4	Johnny Evers
              21	0	3	Heinie Manush
              20	0	4	Bill Mazeroski
              15	0	3	Eppa Rixey
              14	1	2	Rollie Fingers
              			the rest
              12	0	2	Perez
              5	0	1	Bresnahan
              4	0	2	Cuyler
              4	0	2	Hunter
              4	0	1	Grimes
              3	0	1	Day
              1	0	1	Duffy
              Si quaeris peninsulam amoenam, circumspice.

              Comprehensive Reform for the Veterans Committee -- Fixing the Hall continued.


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