I have a few Hall of Fame opinions that people might not agree with!

[Yankeebrigade]

-Vlad Guerrero is a fringe Hall of Famer, and definitely shouldn't have gotten in after only 2 years.
-Larry Walker and Edgar Martinez are both more deserving of the Hall of Fame than Guerrero (FanGraphs has their Wins Above Replacement at 68, whereas Guerrero's is only 55).
-Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens are the best hitter and 2nd or 3rd best hitter of all time. Steroids or not, they belong in there. (Hack Wilson admitted setting his RBI record with a corked bat, which was illegal at the time).
-A-Rod is also a first ballot HOF'er.
-Derek Jeter is a Hall of Famer, BUT, barely. His defense in the last 5 years was the bottom third of any shortstop in the game based on UZR and DRS.

Agree? Disagree? Let me know!

[SavoyBG]

-Vlad Guerrero is a fringe Hall of Famer, and definitely shouldn't have gotten in after only 2 years.
-Larry Walker and Edgar Martinez are both more deserving of the Hall of Fame than Guerrero (FanGraphs has their Wins Above Replacement at 68, whereas Guerrero's is only 55).
-Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens are the best hitter and 2nd or 3rd best pitcher of all time. Steroids or not, they belong in there. (Hack Wilson admitted setting his RBI record with a corked bat, which was illegal at the time).
-A-Rod is also a first ballot HOF'er.
-Derek Jeter is a Hall of Famer, BUT, barely. His defense in the last 5 years was the bottom third of any shortstop in the game based on UZR and DRS.

Agree? Disagree? Let me know!

I don't think most of your opinions are outside of the mainstream here, although I would quibble with Bonds being called the best hitter.

[PVNICK]

Vlad is more solid HOFer but low end, maybe like perhaps Enos Slaughter or Billy Williams.
I prefer Edgar and Larry Walker to him as well.
Bonds and Clemens have the top 3-5 results of all time, YMMV as to how that came to pass
ARod is first ballot on results - but in a way so was Bernie Madoff
Jeter is a rock solid HOFer in the middle of the top 10 all time SSs. Yes his defense was very bad or at least his range if that sounds better

[SamtheBravesFan]

Honestly, all I really take issue with is the complaint that Guerrero got in after two years. I think that's great. I want every Hall of Famer to get in as fast as possible.

Edit: Also a corked bat is always illegal. ; ) I think Hack would have set the record anyway without it. It's absurd how many Cubs got on ahead of him for him to knock in.

[Bothrops Atrox]

-Vlad Guerrero is a fringe Hall of Famer, and definitely shouldn't have gotten in after only 2 years.
-Larry Walker and Edgar Martinez are both more deserving of the Hall of Fame than Guerrero (FanGraphs has their Wins Above Replacement at 68, whereas Guerrero's is only 55).
-Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens are the best hitter and 2nd or 3rd best hitter of all time. Steroids or not, they belong in there. (Hack Wilson admitted setting his RBI record with a corked bat, which was illegal at the time).
-A-Rod is also a first ballot HOF'er.
-Derek Jeter is a Hall of Famer, BUT, barely. His defense in the last 5 years was the bottom third of any shortstop in the game based on UZR and DRS.

Agree? Disagree? Let me know!

These are all pretty standard analytical/sabermetric type HOF beliefs.

[Bothrops Atrox]

I have him more like 15th.

1 - Honus Wagner
2 - Alex Rodriguez
3 - Arky Vaughan
4 - Cal Ripken Jr.
5 - Pop Lloyd
6 - Robin Yount
7 - Joe Cronin
8 - George Davis
9 - Luke Appling
10 - Barry Larkin
11 - Lou Boudreau
12 - Ernie Banks
13 - Willie Wells

I think i have him 12th or 13th.

[SamtheBravesFan]

They don't have every PA in his 1930 splits but for what they have he was better with no one on then with men on base.

Men on - .357/.438/.698 (377 PA)
empty -- .343/.440/.753 (232 PA)

He slugged better with no one on base, but he had a higher average with people on base.

[PVNICK]

I may have overstated things on Jeter, this is from a SS list I posted in 2011, that does not contain NLers:

1. Honus Wagner
2. Alex Rodriguez
3. Cal Ripken - his best was as good as anyone out there ranked below him or pretty damn close and that's just offensively
4. Arky Vaughan
5. Ernie Banks
6. Robin Yount
7. George Davis
8. Derek Jeter - percentagewise he is below the next two but he put in full seasons so he gave his team more every year if that even makes sense
9. Trammell
10. Larkin - both he and Trammell per season just were not playing 150 games enough
11. Joe Cronin
12. Lou Boudreau - the numbers might have them a tweak ahead of Trammell and Larkin but a lot of Boudreau's best came in 43-45 and I guess LQ issues allowed me to slide Cronin down as well
13. Luke Appling - I'm wondering if he is too low (and if someone that docks his near contemporary Cronin on LQ isn't hypocritical for thinking that)
14. Bill Dahlen
15. Ozzie Smith

[JR Hart]

-Vlad Guerrero is a fringe Hall of Famer, and definitely shouldn't have gotten in after only 2 years.
-Larry Walker and Edgar Martinez are both more deserving of the Hall of Fame than Guerrero (FanGraphs has their Wins Above Replacement at 68, whereas Guerrero's is only 55).
-Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens are the best hitter and 2nd or 3rd best hitter of all time. Steroids or not, they belong in there. (Hack Wilson admitted setting his RBI record with a corked bat, which was illegal at the time).
-A-Rod is also a first ballot HOF'er.
-Derek Jeter is a Hall of Famer, BUT, barely. His defense in the last 5 years was the bottom third of any shortstop in the game based on UZR and DRS.

Agree? Disagree? Let me know!

Not really much to argue with here. I rate Jeter higher than most. He's an all time great, in my book.

[Los Bravos]

0 for 5, but that's fine.

[toomanyhatz]

With you on Vlad, though not for the reasons you state. He is overrated in every way other than hitting. Not a successful enough base stealer, even in his prime, to have attempted as often as he did. Legendary arm, but it didn't last that long, and his truly awful fielding (much worse than Jeter ever got) makes up for it. A great natural hitter, but that's pretty much it. Don't mind him being there, but there are many others I can think of that deserve to be there first.

Walker and Martinez not necessarily among them. Fair or not, I have the perception (as do many others) that Walker took great advantage of Coors, and Martinez of not having to field during his decline phase. Walker makes the cut for sure (his road stats are far better than those of his teammates, iirc), Martinez I'm mixed on. It wouldn't bother me.

Bonds and Clemens are, I have always thought, all-time greats. Not necessarily as high as you rate them - "clean" Bonds is still a HoFer, but would have never gotten to that number of HRs without some help, and Clemens surely would have had more mediocre years and not lasted as long. It depends how much you want to punish them for their graft. I think they belong, but I wouldn't argue against anyone that didn't. But among the top, even ten? I'd put a huge asterisk by it.

A-rod, same as above. He belongs, but I'm not crying for him. He did it to himself.

The one I disagree with rather strenuously is Jeter. I don't care how bad he was at the end - he can't possibly have done enough damage in the field to undue what he did offensively at the SS position. He revolutionized the position, has unprecedented counting numbers (which matter more to me than they do to some here). The kicker - even if you just look at WAR, he's not borderline. He's in the top 60 all-time. That's HoF level without question already. And that's before you consider the 'intangibles'. He certainly was a team leader on several world champions, for example. And I hate the Yankees, so if I'm saying it...

[Bothrops Atrox]

The kicker - even if you just look at WAR, he's not borderline. ...

If you look at TZ/DRS based WAR he is not borderlne. If you use DRA or WOWY or FRAA or any of the other stats out there...he is certainly far worse.

[toomanyhatz]

If you look at TZ/DRS based WAR he is not borderlne. If you use DRA or WOWY or FRAA or any of the other stats out there...he is certainly far worse.

But does he become borderline? I'm guessing still no, though I can't find any definitive evidence on line. I did find this interesting article:

https://deadspin.com/two-unrecognized-hall-of-fame-shortstops-1640079170

[Honus Wagner Rules]

With you on Vlad, though not for the reasons you state. He is overrated in every way other than hitting. Not a successful enough base stealer, even in his prime, to have attempted as often as he did. Legendary arm, but it didn't last that long, and his truly awful fielding (much worse than Jeter ever got) makes up for it. A great natural hitter, but that's pretty much it. Don't mind him being there, but there are many others I can think of that deserve to be there first.

Walker and Martinez not necessarily among them. Fair or not, I have the perception (as do many others) that Walker took great advantage of Coors, and Martinez of not having to field during his decline phase. Walker makes the cut for sure (his road stats are far better than those of his teammates, iirc), Martinez I'm mixed on. It wouldn't bother me.

Bonds and Clemens are, I have always thought, all-time greats. Not necessarily as high as you rate them - "clean" Bonds is still a HoFer, but would have never gotten to that number of HRs without some help, and Clemens surely would have had more mediocre years and not lasted as long. It depends how much you want to punish them for their graft. I think they belong, but I wouldn't argue against anyone that didn't. But among the top, even ten? I'd put a huge asterisk by it.

A-rod, same as above. He belongs, but I'm not crying for him. He did it to himself.

The one I disagree with rather strenuously is Jeter. I don't care how bad he was at the end - he can't possibly have done enough damage in the field to undue what he did offensively at the SS position. He revolutionized the position, has unprecedented counting numbers (which matter more to me than they do to some here). The kicker - even if you just look at WAR, he's not borderline. He's in the top 60 all-time. That's HoF level without question already. And that's before you consider the 'intangibles'. He certainly was a team leader on several world champions, for example. And I hate the Yankees, so if I'm saying it...

Exactly, how did Jeter revolutionize the position? He did not have unprecedented counting numbers. Honus Wagner and Cal Ripken, Jr. put up stout counting numbers as well. Keith Olberman summed up Jeter pretty well.

[Bothrops Atrox]

But does he become borderline? I'm guessing still no, though I can't find any definitive evidence on line. I did find this interesting article:

https://deadspin.com/two-unrecognize...ops-1640079170

If you trust DRA - yes. If you trust WOWY - he would be below borderline.

Here it is:

People who think his defense was average or "okay" based on eye-test or Gold Gloves, etc. think he is a top 5 SS.
People who trust Fangraphs/Baseball Reference and their defensive stats (TZ with UZR or DRS) will have him in solidly not-borderline territory.
People who trust DRS (Baseball Gage) or FRAA (Baseball Prospectus) or the stuff Tom Tango did with WOWY will have him borderline at best.

There is 200 run difference between the most favorable and least favorable defensive stats for Jeter. That is the difference between 70 WAR and 50 WAR.
Regardless, it should be noted that the best-case-metric still thinks he was very bad.