Announcement

Collapse

Updated Baseball Fever Policy

Baseball Fever Policy

I. Purpose of this announcement:

This announcement describes the policies pertaining to the operation of Baseball Fever.

Baseball Fever is a moderated baseball message board which encourages and facilitates research and information exchange among fans of our national pastime. The intent of the Baseball Fever Policy is to ensure that Baseball Fever remains an extremely high quality, extremely low "noise" environment.

Baseball Fever is administrated by three principal administrators:
webmaster - Baseball Fever Owner
The Commissioner - Baseball Fever Administrator
Macker - Baseball Fever Administrator

And a group of forum specific super moderators. The role of the moderator is to keep Baseball Fever smoothly and to screen posts for compliance with our policy. The moderators are ALL volunteer positions, so please be patient and understanding of any delays you might experience in correspondence.

II. Comments about our policy:

Any suggestions on this policy may be made directly to the webmaster.

III. Acknowledgments:

This document was based on a similar policy used by SABR.

IV. Requirements for participation on Baseball Fever:

Participation on Baseball Fever is available to all baseball fans with a valid email address, as verified by the forum's automated system, which then in turn creates a single validated account. Multiple accounts by a single user are prohibited.

By registering, you agree to adhere to the policies outlined in this document and to conduct yourself accordingly. Abuse of the forum, by repeated failure to abide by these policies, will result in your access being blocked to the forum entirely.

V. Baseball Fever Netiquette:

Participants at Baseball Fever are required to adhere to these principles, which are outlined in this section.
a. All posts to Baseball Fever should be written in clear, concise English, with proper grammar and accurate spelling. The use of abbreviations should be kept to a minimum; when abbreviation is necessary, they should be either well-known (such as etc.), or explained on their first use in your post.

b. Conciseness is a key attribute of a good post.

c. Quote only the portion of a post to which you are responding.

d. Standard capitalization and punctuation make a large difference in the readability of a post. TYPING IN ALL CAPITALS is considered to be "shouting"; it is a good practice to limit use of all capitals to words which you wish to emphasize.

e. It is our policy NOT to transmit any defamatory or illegal materials.

f. Personal attacks of any type against Baseball Fever readers will not be tolerated. In these instances the post will be copied by a moderator and/or administrator, deleted from the site, then sent to the member who made the personal attack via a Private Message (PM) along with a single warning. Members who choose to not listen and continue personal attacks will be banned from the site.

g. It is important to remember that many contextual clues available in face-to-face discussion, such as tone of voice and facial expression, are lost in the electronic forum. As a poster, try to be alert for phrasing that might be misinterpreted by your audience to be offensive; as a reader, remember to give the benefit of the doubt and not to take umbrage too easily. There are many instances in which a particular choice of words or phrasing can come across as being a personal attack where none was intended.

h. The netiquette described above (a-g) often uses the term "posts", but applies equally to Private Messages.

VI. Baseball Fever User Signature Policy

A signature is a piece of text that some members may care to have inserted at the end of ALL of their posts, a little like the closing of a letter. You can set and / or change your signature by editing your profile in the UserCP. Since it is visible on ALL your posts, the following policy must be adhered to:

Signature Composition
Font size limit: No larger than size 2 (This policy is a size 2)
Style: Bold and italics are permissible
Character limit: No more than 500 total characters
Lines: No more than 4 lines
Colors: Most colors are permissible, but those which are hard to discern against the gray background (yellow, white, pale gray) should be avoided
Images/Graphics: Allowed, but nothing larger than 20k and Content rules must be followed

Signature Content
No advertising is permitted
Nothing political or religious
Nothing obscene, vulgar, defamatory or derogatory
Links to personal blogs/websites are permissible - with the webmaster's written consent
A Link to your Baseball Fever Blog does not require written consent and is recommended
Quotes must be attributed. Non-baseball quotes are permissible as long as they are not religious or political

Please adhere to these rules when you create your signature. Failure to do so will result in a request to comply by a moderator. If you do not comply within a reasonable amount of time, the signature will be removed and / or edited by an Administrator. Baseball Fever reserves the right to edit and / or remove any or all of your signature line at any time without contacting the account holder.

VII. Appropriate and inappropriate topics for Baseball Fever:

Most concisely, the test for whether a post is appropriate for Baseball Fever is: "Does this message discuss our national pastime in an interesting manner?" This post can be direct or indirect: posing a question, asking for assistance, providing raw data or citations, or discussing and constructively critiquing existing posts. In general, a broad interpretation of "baseball related" is used.

Baseball Fever is not a promotional environment. Advertising of products, web sites, etc., whether for profit or not-for-profit, is not permitted. At the webmaster's discretion, brief one-time announcements for products or services of legitimate baseball interest and usefulness may be allowed. If advertising is posted to the site it will be copied by a moderator and/or administrator, deleted from the site, then sent to the member who made the post via a Private Message (PM) along with a single warning. Members who choose to not listen and continue advertising will be banned from the site. If the advertising is spam-related, pornography-based, or a "visit-my-site" type post / private message, no warning at all will be provided, and the member will be banned immediately without a warning.

It is considered appropriate to post a URL to a page which specifically and directly answers a question posted on the list (for example, it would be permissible to post a link to a page containing home-road splits, even on a site which has advertising or other commercial content; however, it would not be appropriate to post the URL of the main page of the site). The site reserves the right to limit the frequency of such announcements by any individual or group.

In keeping with our test for a proper topic, posting to Baseball Fever should be treated as if you truly do care. This includes posting information that is, to the best of your knowledge, complete and accurate at the time you post. Any errors or ambiguities you catch later should be acknowledged and corrected in the thread, since Baseball Fever is sometimes considered to be a valuable reference for research information.

VIII. Role of the moderator:

When a post is submitted to Baseball Fever, it is forwarded by the server automatically and seen immediately. The moderator may:
a. Leave the thread exactly like it was submitted. This is the case 95% of the time.

b. Immediately delete the thread as inappropriate for Baseball Fever. Examples include advertising, personal attacks, or spam. This is the case 1% of the time.

c. Move the thread. If a member makes a post about the Marlins in the Yankees forum it will be moved to the appropriate forum. This is the case 3% of the time.

d. Edit the message due to an inappropriate item. This is the case 1% of the time. There have been new users who will make a wonderful post, then add to their signature line (where your name / handle appears) a tagline that is a pure advertisement. This tagline will be removed, a note will be left in the message so he/she is aware of the edit, and personal contact will be made to the poster telling them what has been edited and what actions need to be taken to prevent further edits.

The moderators perform no checks on posts to verify factual or logical accuracy. While he/she may point out gross errors in factual data in replies to the thread, the moderator does not act as an "accuracy" editor. Also moderation is not a vehicle for censorship of individuals and/or opinions, and the moderator's decisions should not be taken personally.

IX. Legal aspects of participation in Baseball Fever:

By submitting a post to Baseball Fever, you grant Baseball Fever permission to distribute your message to the forum. Other rights pertaining to the post remain with the ORIGINAL author, and you may not redistribute or retransmit any posts by any others, in whole or in part, without the express consent of the original author.

The messages appearing on Baseball Fever contain the opinions and views of their respective authors and are not necessarily those of Baseball Fever, or of the Baseball Almanac family of sites.

Sincerely,

Sean Holtz, Webmaster of Baseball Almanac & Baseball Fever
www.baseball-almanac.com | www.baseball-fever.com
"Baseball Almanac: Sharing Baseball. Sharing History."
See more
See less

Yes/ No/ Maybe Hall of Fame, 1999 election

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Originally posted by Ize19 View Post

    By the way, instead of Lou Whitaker, you've put Alan Trammell as one of the 1998 inductees. I was confused at first about why everyone was voting for Trammell again!
    fixed that issue.

    BTW, welcome to the project!
    Last edited by jalbright; 04-15-2018, 06:43 AM.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by jalbright View Post

      fixed that issue.

      BTW, welcome to the project!
      Thanks, I appreciate it!
      The only way to pitch to Tony (Gwynn) is throw the ball down the middle and hope he hits it at someone." - Al Leiter

      Comment


      • #18
        ....
        Player
        Murphy, Dale - M
        ...
        Smith, Lee - N
        Eckersley, Dennis - Y
        Gullickson, Bill - N
        Henderson, Dave - N
        Hrbek, Kent - N
        Hurst, Bruce - N
        Martinez, Dennis - N
        Molitor, Paul - Y
        Ochiai, Hiromitsu - M
        Righetti, Dave- N
        Sax, Stev - N
        Stieb, Dave - Y
        Trammell, Alan - Y
        ...
        Now the contributors:
        ...
        Contributors
        Steinbrenner, George - Y
        Anderson, Sparky - Y
        Flood, Curt - N
        Selig, Bud - Y
        1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

        1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

        1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


        The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
        The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

        Comment


        • #19
          Dennis Eckersley had 151 wins, two top 7 Cy Young finishes, 2 All Star Games, an ERA+ title, a 20-win season, four top-10 seasons in ERA, six top-10 seasons in WHIP, three top-10 finishes in IP, three top-10 seasons in complete games, four top-10 seasons in shutouts, three top-10 seasons in FIP, two 7-WAR seasons, six seasons with 4.5 or more WAR, and 46 career WAR...

          Before he was even a closer.
          1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

          1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

          1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


          The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
          The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

          Comment


          • #20
            I'll repeat some of what Bothrops said, but I'll hibr my entire take on Eckersley from my musings thread:

            Dennis Eckersley

            He an unusually challenging case to evaluate because of his combination of starting and relieving. It’s difficult to get relief stars on an even footing with other players, so I’m pleased the rating system places him in the upper half of the gray area. He was a six time all-star who won both a Cy Young and a MVP. However, his time as a reliever means he can’t crack the top 100 in the inks or HOF standards among pitchers. He is, however, one of the 37 relievers with at least five years with at least 2 WAR. He’s also the 20th best among relievers (counting only his seasons in relief) in the best five consecutive years in WAR.

            His comps are posted below. There are nine. None of them are in the Hall, but some, like Tiant and Reuschel, are at least in the discussion. None of them had anywhere near the number of innings in high leverage (innings where the game is decided, as is the norm for closers, who come in at the end of close games) situations. That propels him to the head if not beyond his comp list.

            What really sets himself apart in his case for the Hall is that from 1975-1979, he had the fifth most WAR of any pitcher in those year, then from 1987-1992, he had the greatest WAR of all relievers. Thus, both as a starter and as a reliever, he had at least five or six years as an elite performer in the role he was performing at that time.

            His comp list:

            Code:
            IP ERA+ Player
            3548.1 114 Rick Reuschel
            
            3486.1 114 Luis Tiant
            
            3480 116 Wilbur Cooper
            
            3404 115 Charlie Buffinton
            
            3316 117 Andy Pettitte
            
            3285.2 116 Dennis Eckersley
            
            3220.1 118 Dolf Luque
            
            3197.1 115 Chuck Finley
            
            3152 114 Larry French
            
            3104.2 116 Bucky Walters
            
            2995.1 118 Babe Adams
            The top starters in WAR, 1975-79

            Code:
            WAR Rk Player
            39.8 1 Phil Niekro
            
            30.9 2 Jim Palmer
            
            29.4 3 Tom Seaver
            
            28.7 4 Rick Reuschel
            
            27.9 5 Dennis Eckersley
            
            27.4 6 Frank Tanana
            
            26.9 7 Bert Blyleven
            
            22.6 8 Steve Rogers
            
            22.1 9 Gaylord Perry
            
            22.1 10 Rich Gossage
            The top relievers in WAR, 1987-92

            Code:
            WAR Rk Player
            15.5 1 Dennis Eckersley
            
            14.3 2 Tom Henke
            
            14 3 Steve Farr
            
            12.7 4 Jeff Montgomery
            
            12.1 5 Doug Jones
            
            11.6 6 Rob Dibble
            
            10.2 7 Lee Smith
            
            9.6 8 Gregg Olson
            
            9.6 9 Jay Howell
            
            9.4 10 Larry Andersen
            Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
            Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
            A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by jalbright View Post
              I'll repeat some of what Bothrops said, but I'll hibr my entire take on Eckersley from my musings thread:

              Dennis Eckersley

              He an unusually challenging case to evaluate because of his combination of starting and relieving. It’s difficult to get relief stars on an even footing with other players, so I’m pleased the rating system places him in the upper half of the gray area. He was a six time all-star who won both a Cy Young and a MVP. However, his time as a reliever means he can’t crack the top 100 in the inks or HOF standards among pitchers. He is, however, one of the 37 relievers with at least five years with at least 2 WAR. He’s also the 20th best among relievers (counting only his seasons in relief) in the best five consecutive years in WAR.

              His comps are posted below. There are nine. None of them are in the Hall, but some, like Tiant and Reuschel, are at least in the discussion. None of them had anywhere near the number of innings in high leverage (innings where the game is decided, as is the norm for closers, who come in at the end of close games) situations. That propels him to the head if not beyond his comp list.

              What really sets himself apart in his case for the Hall is that from 1975-1979, he had the fifth most WAR of any pitcher in those year, then from 1987-1992, he had the greatest WAR of all relievers. Thus, both as a starter and as a reliever, he had at least five or six years as an elite performer in the role he was performing at that time.
              There is also a lot of allegations that he started juicing around 1988 which coincided with his stardom as a reliever. He had a heck of a career,but is inferior to John Smoltz. Add in the PEDs allegations and that makes him pretty borderline for me which is why I currently have him down as a maybe.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by jjpm74 View Post

                There is also a lot of allegations that he started juicing around 1988 which coincided with his stardom as a reliever. He had a heck of a career,but is inferior to John Smoltz. Add in the PEDs allegations and that makes him pretty borderline for me which is why I currently have him down as a maybe.
                The only allegations I heard were here. I always post the alcoholism information and the response is crickets.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Player
                  Murphy, Dale - yes
                  ...
                  Smith, Lee - maybe
                  Eckersley, Dennis - yes
                  Gullickson, Bill - no
                  Henderson, Dave - no
                  Hrbek, Kent - no
                  Hurst, Bruce - no
                  Martinez, Dennis - no
                  Molitor, Paul - yes
                  Ochiai, Hiromitsu - yes
                  Righetti, Dave - no
                  Sax, Steve - no
                  Stieb, Dave - maybe
                  Trammell, Alan - yes
                  ...
                  Now the contributors:
                  ...
                  Contributors
                  Steinbrenner, George - no
                  Anderson, Sparky - yes
                  Flood, Curt - no
                  Selig, Bud - OMG no

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by PVNICK View Post

                    The only allegations I heard were here. I always post the alcoholism information and the response is crickets.
                    The only things I have ever heard are:

                    1: Guilt by association since he was on a team with two know roiders. Guess what. Everyone was on a team with at least two roiders.
                    2. Some people "in the know" have claimed that there are already PED users in the HOF. No crap, first of all. He has been lumped in with Ryan, Molitor, and a few others are prime suspects with nothing buy guesswork.
                    3. He got better in the middle of his career after a bit of a downslide. This is kinda true - but there is nothing unusual with a bleh starter becoming a great reliever. It has happened a hundred times in baseball history and Eck actually was still putting up 3-4 WAR seasons as starter anyway.

                    As far as I know...that is it. Pure speculative nothing. You are right - this is the only place I have hear Eck and PEd rumours. And considering this is the same place where he hear hot takes such as Albert Pujols isn't much better than John Olerud, I would take it with a grain of salt.
                    1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

                    1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

                    1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


                    The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
                    The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      We have a quorum.
                      Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                      Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                      A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        MY BALLOT
                        Player
                        Murphy, Dale--yes
                        ...
                        Smith, Lee--no
                        Eckersley, Dennis--yes
                        Gullickson, Bill--no
                        Henderson, Dave--no
                        Hrbek, Kent--no
                        Hurst, Bruce--no
                        Martinez, Dennis--no, but maybe overlooked, in my top ~115 non-Negro league hurlers, great throwing motion too!
                        Molitor, Paul--yes
                        Ochiai, Hiromitsu--yes
                        Righetti, Dave--no
                        Sax, Steve--no
                        Stieb, Dave--maybe
                        Trammell, Alan--yes
                        ...
                        Now the contributors:
                        ...
                        Contributors
                        Steinbrenner - maybe
                        Anderson, Sparky-yes
                        Flood, Curt--maybe
                        Selig, Bud--no
                        Last edited by Jar of Flies; 04-16-2018, 09:24 AM.
                        Jacquelyn Eva Marchand (1983-2017)
                        http://www.tezakfuneralhome.com/noti...uelyn-Marchand

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Bothrops Atrox View Post

                          The only things I have ever heard are:

                          1: Guilt by association since he was on a team with two know roiders. Guess what. Everyone was on a team with at least two roiders.
                          2. Some people "in the know" have claimed that there are already PED users in the HOF. No crap, first of all. He has been lumped in with Ryan, Molitor, and a few others are prime suspects with nothing buy guesswork.
                          3. He got better in the middle of his career after a bit of a downslide. This is kinda true - but there is nothing unusual with a bleh starter becoming a great reliever. It has happened a hundred times in baseball history and Eck actually was still putting up 3-4 WAR seasons as starter anyway.

                          As far as I know...that is it. Pure speculative nothing. You are right - this is the only place I have hear Eck and PEd rumours. And considering this is the same place where he hear hot takes such as Albert Pujols isn't much better than John Olerud, I would take it with a grain of salt.
                          So clue me in on the scientific approach used against the "known" roiders?
                          This week's Giant

                          #5 in games played as a Giant with 1721 , Bill Terry

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by JR Hart View Post

                            So clue me in on the scientific approach used against the "known" roiders?
                            Well, there is varying degrees of guesswok, but I am not comfortable calling out anyone without proof. Not all that worried about it even if there WAS proof. Unlike some people here who claim to hate the PED witch-hunting only to call out people they think are guilty too, I actually avoid witch hunting all-together.

                            I am not hypocrite...I am not calling out Bonds or Clemens either, but I certainly am not going to call out Eck or Ryan just because I feel it is unjust that some other guy has been called out unfairly. Its not my job to even out a playing field. If the whole PED thing is a "Kangaroo Court", than guys like Eck, Ryan, Griffey, Thome, etc. should not be brought up either.
                            1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

                            1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

                            1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


                            The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
                            The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Bothrops Atrox View Post

                              Well, there is varying degrees of guesswok, but I am not comfortable calling out anyone without proof. Not all that worried about it even if there WAS proof. Unlike some people here who claim to hate the PED witch-hunting only to call out people they think are guilty too, I actually avoid witch hunting all-together.

                              I am not hypocrite...I am not calling out Bonds or Clemens either, but I certainly am not going to call out Eck or Ryan just because I feel it is unjust that some other guy has been called out unfairly. Its not my job to even out a playing field. If the whole PED thing is a "Kangaroo Court", than guys like Eck, Ryan, Griffey, Thome, etc. should not be brought up either.
                              I think everyone should be called out. lots of players juiced in baseball here are a few in the HOF already:

                              Rickey Henderson
                              Mike Piazza
                              Dennis Eckersley
                              Ivan Rodriguez
                              Jeff Bagwell
                              Nolan Ryan

                              Why should McGwire, Sosa, Palmiero, Bonds and Clemens be the only ones to share the blame? Nolan Ryan's head grew two sizes before he retired but no one accused him of doping. Rickey Henderson went from a skinny nothing hitting 8 home runs a season to a guy with popeye arms in his late 30s blasting 25+ home runs a year. He isn't suspected or blamed. Only a few scapegoats share the brunt of the blame. The whole thing is stupid and Bus Selig and Tony LaRussa getting inducted into the HOF was the ultimate slap in the face.
                              Last edited by jjpm74; 04-16-2018, 12:57 PM.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by jjpm74 View Post

                                I think everyone should be called out. lots of players juiced in baseball here are a few in the HOF already:

                                Rickey Henderson
                                Mike Piazza
                                Dennis Eckersley
                                Ivan Rodriguez
                                Jeff Bagwell
                                Nolan Ryan


                                Why should McGwire, Sosa, Palmiero, Bonds and Clemens be the only ones to share the blame? Nolan Ryan's head grew two sizes before he retired but no one accused him of doping. Rickey Henderson went from a skinny nothing hitting 8 home runs a season to a guy with popeye arms in his late 30s blasting 25+ home runs a year. He isn't suspected or blamed. Only a few scapegoats share the brunt of the blame. The whole thing is stupid and Bus Selig and Tony LaRussa getting inducted into the HOF was the ultimate slap in the face.
                                How do you know all of these bold-faced guys juiced? And I don't think Sosa, Clemens, etc. should get al the blame either. When did I say that? But if I am not going to dock Clemens and Bonds I CERTAINLY am not going to knock guys like Eck. I have always said that the issue is so convoluted, and unknowable, I wasn't going to waste my time trying to untangle it. I don;t blame anyone.

                                But calling out everyone or nobody is at least consistent. We have people here who vehemently defend their childhood heroes from "baseless accusation" and then turnaround and make even more baseless accusations of others who are even less obviously connected to PEDs. Sad and pathetic.

                                Last edited by Bothrops Atrox; 04-16-2018, 01:44 PM.
                                1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

                                1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

                                1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


                                The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
                                The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X