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  • brett
    started a topic Is Trammel over Whitaker inappropriate? Is it racist?

    Is Trammel over Whitaker inappropriate? Is it racist?

    What are the cases for Trammel over Whitaker. Are they fair? The only thing I can think of regarding Trammel is that he may have been the best player in the AL in 1987. I was also a little surprised that Whitaker only got MVP votes once and made 5 all star teams while Trammel got votes 7 times and made 6 all star games.

    Whitaker played more games, had a higher OPS+, slugging percentage and on-base percentage,

  • jalbright
    replied
    Originally posted by willshad View Post

    I for one don't like to stereotype, and when I meet someone I try my best to judge them on their own personal merits and not on my biases. BUT....it has been my observation that not only do the majority of them embrace the stereotypes, but shove them in your face so hard that you are forced to put them in that 'group'.

    Racism is bad, but if someone is going to completely embrace all the negative aspects of their race that people stereotype them for, they really in no position to complain.

    If an african american is going to act 'thug', play loud rap music, wear their jeans hanging ground, be lazy at their job, steal, sell and buy drugs etc, then they deserve any racism that comes their way IMO. Let's not pretend that it is totally a one sided thing.
    The last paragraph of this post calls into question the sincerity of the prior two paragraphs. If you are saying thieves and drug dealers and even users deserve what they get, fine. But in this country, we have the first amendment and the freedom to do the remaining items listed. You don't get to lump that stuff in with the rest and get a pass. I will also point out that many of the criminal activities are color-blind, so long as one excludes the color of money. In many cases, that and/or the fix the perpetrator needs are all he or she cares about.

    I am a mod, I'm still here, and I have the power to deal with posts like that last quoted paragraph, and this will serve as warning I will in fact do so.

    Leave a comment:


  • jalbright
    replied
    To the question of whether or not Whitaker's exclusion is the result of racism, I have to say no. He didn't get 3% of the vote. Racism is still a problem in this country, but it's not that huge. Now, Whitaker belongs, and I do believe there's an ignorance that accounts for his vote total, but racism isn't at all the leading reason he's not there. Now, had he had 60 or 65% and not gotten in, then racism might be a rational explanation, as it only takes 25%+1 to keep a guy out, and each vote tainted by racism could easily be the main reason he wasn't inducted.

    Leave a comment:


  • bluesky5
    replied
    Originally posted by willshad View Post

    I for one don't like to stereotype, and when I meet someone I try my best to judge them on their own personal merits and not on my biases. BUT....it has been my observation that not only do the majority of them embrace the stereotypes, but shove them in your face so hard that you are forced to put them in that 'group'.

    Racism is bad, but if someone is going to completely embrace all the negative aspects of their race that people stereotype them for, they really in no position to complain.

    If an african american is going to act 'thug', play loud rap music, wear their jeans hanging ground, be lazy at their job, steal, sell and buy drugs etc, then they deserve any racism that comes their way IMO. Let's not pretend that it is totally a one sided thing.
    You coulda done without the extra paragraph there ace.

    Leave a comment:


  • Los Bravos
    replied
    Originally posted by willshad View Post
    If an african american is going to act 'thug', play loud rap music, wear their jeans hanging ground, be lazy at their job, steal, sell and buy drugs etc, then they deserve any racism that comes their way IMO. Let's not pretend that it is totally a one sided thing.
    I know we really don't have any Mods anymore but someone who knows how to work the machinery needs to close this thread, ASAP. If much more of this kind of rank garbage gets posted, I think it's going to get very ugly.

    Leave a comment:


  • bluesky5
    replied
    Originally posted by willshad View Post

    I for one don't like to stereotype, and when I meet someone I try my best to judge them on their own personal merits and not on my biases. BUT....it has been my observation that not only do the majority of them embrace the stereotypes, but shove them in your face so hard that you are forced to put them in that 'group'.

    Racism is bad, but if someone is going to completely embrace all the negative aspects of their race that people stereotype them for, they really in no position to complain.
    Yo you gotta please unquote his post it's taking up the entire page man.

    Leave a comment:


  • willshad
    replied
    Originally posted by SavoyBG View Post
    https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/b...always-racists

    NEW ORLEANS—W.K. Kellogg’s (WKKF) 2012 conference kicked off with what is now familiar news regarding racial inequity: Racial inequity exists, and it’s not decreasing. In the conference’s first plenary session titled “Unconscious Bias and Race,” Dr. David Williams, professor of African and African American Studies at Harvard University, cited studies documenting that when Latinos and African Americans were treated by physicians for a broken bone in their leg, they received pain medication significantly less often than white patients with the same injury.


    Kellogg Conference Plenary Panel

    Source: Mikhail Lyubansky

    The data were not new. They came from a 2002 Institute of Medicine report on racial and ethnic disparities in healthcare, which stressed that “a large body of research underscores the existence of disparities.” As examples, the report stated
    … minorities are less likely to be given appropriate cardiac medications or to undergo bypass surgery, and are less likely to receive kidney dialysis or transplants. By contrast, they are more likely to receive certain less-desirable procedures, such as lower limb amputations for diabetes and other conditions.


    The data beg an obvious question, and Williams did not disappoint. “How on earth do we make sense of this?” he asked. “How is it possible for the best trained medical workforce in the world to produce… care that appears to be so discriminatory?"

    The answer, Williams argued, is unconscious discrimination. According to Williams, the research shows that when people hold a negative stereotype about a group and meet someone from that group, they often treat that person differently and honestly don't even realize it. Williams noted that most Americans would object to being labeled as “racist” or even as “discriminating”, but he added, “Welcome to the human race. It is a normal process about how all of us process information. The problem for our society is that the level of negative stereotypes is very high.”

    Understanding the power of unconscious bias has emerged as a new mission for leaders and advocates working to bring racial healing and racial equity to communities across the U.S.

    Dr. Gail Christopher, vice president for program strategy at the Kellogg Foundation, explained that centuries of a racial hierarchy in America has left its mark on our society, especially pertaining to how people of color are perceived by whites. “Our society assigns value to groups of people,” she said. “It is a process that is embedded in the consciousness of Americans and impacted by centuries of bias.”

    Of course, doctors are not the only ones who express unconscious racial bias. Dr. Phillip Goff, assistant psychology professor at UCLA, showed examples of how law enforcement officials can be influenced by unconscious bias not only when it comes to race, but also in regard to what they perceive to be threats to their masculinity. Over 80% of incidents that involved police use of deadly force were preceded by threat to the officers’ masculinity. "’Fag’ is a deadly word,” Goff observed. In fact, Goff’s research suggests that threats to masculinity were much more predictive of deadly use of force (in highly realistic simulation exercises) than explicit measures of racial prejudice. Racism, it turns out, is not necessarily perpetrated by racists but by people who feel threatened for other reasons and are not aware of their racial bias.

    article continues after advertisement

    Here's Goff revealing one of social scientists' "dirty little secrets."



    Goff’s findings may allow us to reconcile the existence of racial inequity on a variety of different indexes with the increasingly popular rhetoric that racism no longer exists.

    “That is an illusion,” said Rachel Godsil, the director of research for the American Values Institute.

    The last panelist, john powell, director of the Haas Center for Diversity and Inclusion and Robert D. Haas Chancellor’s Chair in Equity and Inclusion at the University of California Berkeley, elaborated. “The fact that we have these deep, unconscious biases – and it’s conflicted around race … we can be primed to be racially fair, we can be primed to be racially anxious – and it doesn’t make us a racist. It makes us human. And if we’re going to address it, we have to acknowledge that.”

    article continues after advertisement

    “There are three types of not knowing,” powell explained: 1. What we can’t know, like how many neurons are firing at any given moment, 2. What we don’t care to know, like the color of the car we pass at a particular intersection, and 3. What we don’t want to know. When we talk about racism, we usually talk about #2 and #3, and those are important conversations to be having. We all need to care. We all need to want to know. But #1 is important as well.

    Indeed, unless we intentionally go out of our way to learn about and become aware of our own bias, it is likely to spill out at the most inopportune time, like during a stressful traffic stop (in the case of a law enforcement officer) or during a medical emergency in the ER. As powell observed, “when there's tension between conscious and unconscious drives, the unconscious usually wins.”

    The good news is that it doesn’t have to. We just have to learn to become aware and be willing to acknowledge our own biases and then consciously override them. Denial and professed racial color-blindness only makes things worse.

    __________________________________________

    For more racial analysis of news and popular culture, join the | Between The Lines | Facebook page and follow Mikhail on Twitter.

    Creative Commons License This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NoDerivs 3.0 Unported License.SHOW17 COMMENTSAbout the Author
    I for one don't like to stereotype, and when I meet someone I try my best to judge them on their own personal merits and not on my biases. BUT....it has been my observation that not only do the majority of them embrace the stereotypes, but shove them in your face so hard that you are forced to put them in that 'group'.

    Racism is bad, but if someone is going to completely embrace all the negative aspects of their race that people stereotype them for, they really in no position to complain.

    If an african american is going to act 'thug', play loud rap music, wear their jeans hanging ground, be lazy at their job, steal, sell and buy drugs etc, then they deserve any racism that comes their way IMO. Let's not pretend that it is totally a one sided thing.
    Last edited by willshad; 06-16-2018, 06:41 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • bluesky5
    replied
    No one can see in your mind. It's an obtuse and reprehensible idea. Especially from people who should know better. It's the thought accusations that get the thought police called. These people may have good intentions or they may not (believe it or not I can't read minds) but the means doesn't justify the ends.

    Leave a comment:


  • Los Bravos
    replied

    Originally posted by JR Hart View Post
    academia will go to any length to stay relevant
    Harvard craves the approval of Lou Dobbs and Steve Doocy.

    Leave a comment:


  • bluesky5
    replied
    Originally posted by JR Hart View Post

    beyond laughable

    academia will go to any length to stay relevant

    EVERYONE IS A RACIST old news
    I wonder what happens if someone acts racist but subconsciously isn't racist? Can someone with the ability to tap into other people's subconscious enlighten me?

    Leave a comment:


  • JR Hart
    replied
    Originally posted by bluesky5 View Post
    Laughable.
    beyond laughable

    academia will go to any length to stay relevant

    EVERYONE IS A RACIST old news

    Leave a comment:


  • Los Bravos
    replied
    It's really not much of a surprise that most of the discussions we have around here about the Negro Leagues and the color barrier turn into such a mess, with all of this as the background.

    Leave a comment:


  • bluesky5
    replied
    Laughable.

    Leave a comment:


  • SavoyBG
    replied
    https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/b...always-racists

    NEW ORLEANS—W.K. Kellogg’s (WKKF) 2012 conference kicked off with what is now familiar news regarding racial inequity: Racial inequity exists, and it’s not decreasing. In the conference’s first plenary session titled “Unconscious Bias and Race,” Dr. David Williams, professor of African and African American Studies at Harvard University, cited studies documenting that when Latinos and African Americans were treated by physicians for a broken bone in their leg, they received pain medication significantly less often than white patients with the same injury.


    Kellogg Conference Plenary Panel

    Source: Mikhail Lyubansky

    The data were not new. They came from a 2002 Institute of Medicine report on racial and ethnic disparities in healthcare, which stressed that “a large body of research underscores the existence of disparities.” As examples, the report stated
    … minorities are less likely to be given appropriate cardiac medications or to undergo bypass surgery, and are less likely to receive kidney dialysis or transplants. By contrast, they are more likely to receive certain less-desirable procedures, such as lower limb amputations for diabetes and other conditions.
    The data beg an obvious question, and Williams did not disappoint. “How on earth do we make sense of this?” he asked. “How is it possible for the best trained medical workforce in the world to produce… care that appears to be so discriminatory?"

    The answer, Williams argued, is unconscious discrimination. According to Williams, the research shows that when people hold a negative stereotype about a group and meet someone from that group, they often treat that person differently and honestly don't even realize it. Williams noted that most Americans would object to being labeled as “racist” or even as “discriminating”, but he added, “Welcome to the human race. It is a normal process about how all of us process information. The problem for our society is that the level of negative stereotypes is very high.”

    Understanding the power of unconscious bias has emerged as a new mission for leaders and advocates working to bring racial healing and racial equity to communities across the U.S.

    Dr. Gail Christopher, vice president for program strategy at the Kellogg Foundation, explained that centuries of a racial hierarchy in America has left its mark on our society, especially pertaining to how people of color are perceived by whites. “Our society assigns value to groups of people,” she said. “It is a process that is embedded in the consciousness of Americans and impacted by centuries of bias.”

    Of course, doctors are not the only ones who express unconscious racial bias. Dr. Phillip Goff, assistant psychology professor at UCLA, showed examples of how law enforcement officials can be influenced by unconscious bias not only when it comes to race, but also in regard to what they perceive to be threats to their masculinity. Over 80% of incidents that involved police use of deadly force were preceded by threat to the officers’ masculinity. "’Fag’ is a deadly word,” Goff observed. In fact, Goff’s research suggests that threats to masculinity were much more predictive of deadly use of force (in highly realistic simulation exercises) than explicit measures of racial prejudice. Racism, it turns out, is not necessarily perpetrated by racists but by people who feel threatened for other reasons and are not aware of their racial bias.

    article continues after advertisement

    Here's Goff revealing one of social scientists' "dirty little secrets."



    Goff’s findings may allow us to reconcile the existence of racial inequity on a variety of different indexes with the increasingly popular rhetoric that racism no longer exists.

    “That is an illusion,” said Rachel Godsil, the director of research for the American Values Institute.

    The last panelist, john powell, director of the Haas Center for Diversity and Inclusion and Robert D. Haas Chancellor’s Chair in Equity and Inclusion at the University of California Berkeley, elaborated. “The fact that we have these deep, unconscious biases – and it’s conflicted around race … we can be primed to be racially fair, we can be primed to be racially anxious – and it doesn’t make us a racist. It makes us human. And if we’re going to address it, we have to acknowledge that.”

    article continues after advertisement

    “There are three types of not knowing,” powell explained: 1. What we can’t know, like how many neurons are firing at any given moment, 2. What we don’t care to know, like the color of the car we pass at a particular intersection, and 3. What we don’t want to know. When we talk about racism, we usually talk about #2 and #3, and those are important conversations to be having. We all need to care. We all need to want to know. But #1 is important as well.

    Indeed, unless we intentionally go out of our way to learn about and become aware of our own bias, it is likely to spill out at the most inopportune time, like during a stressful traffic stop (in the case of a law enforcement officer) or during a medical emergency in the ER. As powell observed, “when there's tension between conscious and unconscious drives, the unconscious usually wins.”

    The good news is that it doesn’t have to. We just have to learn to become aware and be willing to acknowledge our own biases and then consciously override them. Denial and professed racial color-blindness only makes things worse.

    __________________________________________

    For more racial analysis of news and popular culture, join the | Between The Lines | Facebook page and follow Mikhail on Twitter.

    Creative Commons License This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NoDerivs 3.0 Unported License.SHOW17 COMMENTSAbout the Author

    Leave a comment:


  • SavoyBG
    replied
    Originally posted by bluesky5 View Post

    It was all subconscious though. I wonder if we can start calling out subconscious rapist or murderers? Yo I know deep down he wants to rape this person. Arrest him.
    Is Harvard a credible source?

    The simple test that determines if you’re subconsciously racist

    https://www.news.com.au/finance/work...6bb991de071ef5

    Leave a comment:

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