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Playoff Hall of Fame project, group 3

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  • Playoff Hall of Fame project, group 3

    Playoff HOF rules

    1. This project will start with 512 major leaguers selected by me. I started with the top 500 in BBref WAR, sorted out the guys who hadn’t retired, and added in major leaguers who made the actual Hall or who made it in some of our shadow hall projects. I added a few other suggestions and changes, and went with those 512

    2. Those 512 were organized randomly into 64 groups of eight. I’d prefer voters to rank them 1 through 8, with each player getting 8 points minus his ranking. I will accept votes that only name the four they think are the best HOF candidates out of the group. In that instance, the four named will be counted as being in fourth place, the other four as being in fifth place. This last provision is meant to help increase participation. I envision each election taking only one week, though in cases of holidays or other issues, I reserve the right to extend that time.

    3. I will go through the entire first round before proceeding to the second, the entire second before proceeding to the third and so forth. In the first round, four from each group will go on into the 1-0 bracket, and four will go on to the 0-1 bracket. That will yield 256 in each half.

    4. For the second round, we will start with the winners bracket. Half, or 128 will go to the group of 2-0 players. The other half will drop into the group of 1-1 players. Then we’ll get to the losers bracket. The winners will also go into the 1-1 bracket, yielding 256 players in that group. The guys in the first group who are 1-0 and then lose in the second round will fill in in four spots in the 32nd group of 1-1 players, then the second group of 1-0 guys to lose to go into the 1-1 pool will go into the 31st group and so forth to avoid as much as possible facing the same guys multiple times. The winners of the first 0-1 group will fill in the remaining four spots in the first 1-1 group, the winners of the second 0-1 group will fill in the remaining four spots of the second 1-1 group and so forth. The losers of the 0-1 group will fall to the 0-2 group.

    5. For the third round, the winners of the 2-0 group are inducted, and the losers of the 0-2 group are eliminated. That’s 64 in each of the inducted and eliminated groups. The losers of the 2-0 group go to the 2-1 group, which will provide 64 of the 192 players in the 2-1 group. The other 128 will come from the winners of the 1-1 group. I will assign the losers from the 2-0 group starting in the 12th group of 2-1 players and then filling in every third slot until they’re filled, again to try and minimize facing too many of the same players faced in earlier rounds. I will do the same thing for the winners of the 0-2 among the 1-2 players

    6. For the fourth round, the winners of the 2-1 group (96 of them) will be inducted, driving the total up to 160 inductees. Similarly, the losers of the 1-2 group are eliminated, meaning 160 of the original 512 are now out. The remaining 192 will be in the 2-2 group. For the 2-2 group, the first 2-1 losers will be in the first 2-2 group, the second 2-1 losers in the second 2-2 group, and so on. For the 1-2 winners, the first group goes to the 24th 2-2 group, the second to the 23rd, and so on.

    7. The 96 losers of the fifth round will be saved as reserves in case we need to replenish the pool of players when we go annual. The 96 winners of the 2-2 round will compete in the sixth round. The 48 winners of that round are inducted to bring us to 208 inductees. The 48 losers of the 3-2 round will compete in the seventh round. The 24 winners of the seventh round are inducted, which will get us 232 MLB inductees.. The 24 losers will be the first players to populate the pool to use against retired players.

    8. I will keep a list of the 12 players who went in as third or fourth place candidates in the seventh round as a reference for my two VCs, one for Japanese players, the other for players in a wide definition of Negro Leagues including any league with large numbers of Negro Leaguers, such as Mexico in the 1940’s, Cuba into the integration years, the Puerto Rican Winter League, the 1937 Dominican League, and so forth

    9. The point of this reference is that the middle of those 12 names should be used as one point of reference for what the floor should be considered to be for the VC selections. I will keep a list of the sixth third place candidates from the sixth fourth placers to aid people in determining where that middle point is. I will mandate that a minimum of five Japanese players must be inducted, and twelve Negro Leaguers. However, I will allow the VC voters to determine how many of the players in each group presented to them are over the floor level represented by the middle of the last 12 inductees list. I will add up the average number of candidates the VC members believe are over that floor for all groups in the category (Negro Leagues or Japan), and if it is higher than my mandated floor, that is how many candidates from that category will be inducted. If not, the mandated floor will be use,

    10. The VCs will have a playoff ranking within the category much like was used for the major leaguers. I will have to adjust the numbers to fit the number of inductees we determine and the number of candidates I offer to the VC.

    11. I won’t worry about ties except where they straddle the line between winners and losers in a group. In that case, the tie goes to the candidate getting the most first place votes, then the most second place, and so on to the last place in the group. If that does not break the tie, there will be a runoff election. If that remains tied, random selection methods such as coin flips or high card will be used to break the tie

    12. A quorum for the major leaguers will be six votes. I suspect I would accept a quorum of four for the VC groups

    13. People may vote on only the major leaguers if they wish. People may choose to only participate in one or both VCs. They may participate in the MLB players and only one VC or they may be part of all three.

    14. The VCs will follow the selection of the first 232 MLB players. I will probably select some players who are not selected by the VCs to be put in the pool, and maybe some others to be placed among the reserves. Until the number of inductees are determined for the VC groups, this decision will have to be put on hold.

    15. One issue is player/managers. It will be up to the individual voter on players to determine how much credit for managing the voter wishes to give the person for managing at the same time he played, with the instruction that if he was a part time player the credit given should be smaller than if he was full time. If he wasn't playing or just getting a few ABs, the managing credit should be minimal that year in the player vote. However, this project is exclusively about players, so if a man managed after his playing days, that managing should not be considered.

    16. I will put the lists I intend to use for the VCs out in advance of the deliberations of those groups to permit discussion of possible additions or omissions on my part. My reason for not doing so now is I expect additional research to take place between now and the time we’re close to getting to the VCs, and I’d prefer to come up with the final list only once, and in this environment, it should come closer to the end of the MLB group than now to allow for the insights from that research to be included.

    17. It seems certain there will be retirements and/or deaths of players between now and the end of the VC deliberations. Once the VCs are done, we will put those players in the pool and select two for each season to have passed since the beginning of this project. Once that is done, we will go annual, electing two per year from the pool.

    18. If we get over 40 players in the pool, we will have a playoff to cut the number to 30. One way we will use to avoid playoffs is to cut players from the pool is to drop players from the pool to the reserves if they fail to make the final election for inductees three times. Once that happens, they will be ineligible to return to the pool for three years. If the pool drops below 12 names, we will have a playoff for the candidates in the reserves to bring the list back up to at least 24 names in the pool. If there is a playoff among the reserves, I will probably cut the number of reserves to no more than 48.

    19. I will maintain lists of the inductees, those in the pool, and those in the reserves, I will also have available a post of the current round and the round to come for the information of participants

    20. This project is open to everyone member of Fever in good standing who has not been barred from similar projects.

    21. You have to rank all the players in the group. One omission from the group would be plugged in at 8th if I cannot get the voter to correct it on his or her own. If there are two or more open spaces, the ballot cannot be counted. If a voter sees fit to put PED guys or gambling-tainted players at the bottom of the list, that's within his or her prerogative.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  • #2
    Here's the first two rounds of the brackets:

    1 1-001
    Lou Gehrig Lou Gehrig
    Addie Joss Billy Williams
    Billy Williams Lefty Grove
    Lefty Grove Mickey Mantle
    Ernie Lombardi George Davis
    Mickey Mantle Derek Jeter
    Fred Tenney Kirby Puckett
    Charlie Bennett Hughie Jennings
    2 1-002
    Silver King w3
    Charlie Buffinton
    Mark Belanger
    Hughie Jennings
    Dolph Camilli w4
    Kirby Puckett
    George Davis
    Derek Jeter
    3 1-003
    Kevin Brown w5
    Jim Kaat
    Jim Bunning
    Chuck Finley
    Doug DeCinces w6
    Bob Feller
    Charley Jones
    Joe Start
    4 1-004
    Bobby Bonds w7
    Harry Hooper
    Pete Browning
    Roger Maris
    Gene Tenace w8
    Bill Nicholson
    Gary Carter
    Dolf Luque
    5 1-005
    Pie Traynor w9
    Bucky Walters
    Dutch Leonard
    Nap Rucker
    Jack Chesbro w10
    Jason Kendall
    Kevin Appier
    Hardy Richardson
    6 1-006
    Tony Fernandez w11
    Sammy Sosa
    Willie Stargell
    Max Carey
    Arky Vaughan w12
    Johnny Bench
    Bobby Wallace
    Cupid Childs
    7 1-007
    Jorge Posada w13
    Sam Thompson
    George Wright
    Chief Bender
    Pete Alexander w14
    Hoyt Wilhelm
    Wade Boggs
    Jack Morris
    8 1-008
    Roy White w15
    Placido Polanco
    Gil McDougald
    Rod Carew
    Billy Herman w16
    Eddie Mathews
    Chipper Jones
    Barry Larkin
    9 1-009
    Andre Dawson w17
    Babe Ruth
    Cliff Lee
    Clark Griffith
    Ted Williams w18
    Don Sutton
    Bret Saberhagen
    Lave Cross
    10 1-010
    Gaylord Perry w19
    Noodles Hahn
    Joe DiMaggio
    Luke Appling
    Dwight Gooden w20
    Doc White
    Rocky Colavito
    George Foster
    11 1-011
    Larry Gardner w21
    Vada Pinson
    Bert Campaneris
    Mark Buehrle`
    Torii Hunter w22
    Nomar Garciaparra
    Harry Heilmann
    Roger Connor
    12 1-012
    Tony Oliva w23
    Randy Johnson
    Buddy Bell
    Enos Slaughter
    Dizzy Trout w24
    John McGraw
    Duke Snider
    Carl Hubbell
    13 1-013
    Ted Lyons w25
    Vern Stephens
    Joe Gordon
    Allie Reynolds
    George Brett w26
    Tim Raines
    Tony Lazzeri
    John Candelaria
    14 1-014
    Brian Giles w27
    Jackie Robinson
    Bob Welch
    David Ortiz
    Curt Flood w28
    Hank Aaron
    John Montgomery Ward
    Darry Strawberry
    15 1-015
    Reggie Smith w29
    Norm Cash
    Roger Bresnahan
    Travis Jackson
    Carlton Fisk w30
    Phil Niekro
    Ezra Sutton
    Barry Bonds
    16 1-016
    Mike Smith w31
    Will Clarke
    Brett Butler
    Jeff Kent
    Eppa Rixey w32
    Bob Johnson
    Vic Willis
    Walter Johnson
    17 1-017
    Luis Gonzalez w33
    Eddie Murray
    Rick Ferrll
    Ned Garver
    Al Spalding w34
    Lou Brock
    Monte Irvin
    Schoolboy Rowe
    18 1-018
    Nolan Ryan w35
    Tommy Bond
    Sad Sam Jones
    Lou Whitaker
    Cy Young w36
    Ken Singleton
    Chase Utley
    Gary Gaetti
    19 1-019
    Ken Boyer w37
    Davey Lopes
    Cesar Cedeno
    Del Pratt
    George Kell w38
    Larry Jackson
    Eddie Collins
    Rube Waddell
    20 1-020
    Red Ruffing w-39
    Rusty Staub
    Ty Cobb
    Carlos Delgado
    Joe Kelley w40
    Rafael Palmiero
    Buddy Myer
    Sandy Koufax
    21 1-021
    Jim O'Rourke w41
    jerry Koosman
    Harry Stovey
    Joe Tinker
    Lance Berkman w42
    Paul Molitor
    Dick Allen
    Luis Aparicio
    22 1-022
    Jimmy Wynn w43
    Dixie Walker
    Hugh Duffy
    King Kelly
    Ron Guidry w44
    Chuck Klein
    Jimmy Rollins
    Cal Ripken, Jr.
    23 1-023
    Sam Crawford w45
    Catfish Hunter
    Ben Chapman
    Wally Schang
    Rabbit Maranville w46
    Eddie Ciccotte
    Roger Clemens
    Dave Steib
    24 1-024
    Juan Marichal w47
    Curt Simmons
    Greg Maddux
    Jimmy Sheckard
    Jamie Moyer w48
    Burleigh Grimes
    Mark Grace
    Sam Rice
    25 1-025
    Gavvy Cravath w49
    Cy Seymour
    Joe Cronin
    George Mullin
    Miguel Tejada w50
    Luis Tiant Jr
    Joe McGinnity
    Ed Konetchy
    26 1-026
    Chuck Knoblauch w51
    Dizzy Dean
    Alex Rodriguez
    Graig Nettles
    Art Fletcher w52
    Ralph Kiner
    Ross Youngs
    Elmer Flick
    27 1-027
    Jesse Burkett w53
    Larry French
    Bob Lemon
    Jim Palmer
    Mickey Welch w54
    Sam Leever
    Jose Canseco
    Curt Schilling
    28 1-028
    Bobby Doerr w55
    Jimmie Foxx
    Ross Barnes
    Jack Quinn
    Bob Caruthers w56
    Rickey Henderson
    Jack Stivetts
    Reggie Jackson
    29 1-029
    Mark McGwire w57
    Babe Adams
    Albert Belle
    Tommy Leach
    Kiki Cuyler w58
    Heinie Groh
    Bobby Veach
    Claude Osteen
    30 1-030
    Lip Pike w59
    Mel Harder
    Trevor Hoffman
    Charlie Gehringer
    Roberto Clemente w60
    Joe Torre
    Craig Biggio
    Dave Parker
    31 1-031
    Frank (Home Run) Baker w61
    Roberto Alomar
    Willie Randolph
    Joe Morgan
    Billy Pierce w62
    Rube Marquard
    Al Simmons
    Gil Hodges
    32 1-032
    Fred Dunlap w63
    Robin Yount
    Toby Harrah
    Heinie Manush
    Johnny Pesky w64
    David Cone
    Old Hoss Radbourn
    Brian Downing
    33 0-101
    Johnny Evers Addie Joss
    Tim Hudson Ernie Lombardi
    Sherry Magee Fred Tenney
    Wilbur Wood Charlie Bennett
    Waite Hoyt Charlie Buffinton
    Matt Williams Dolph Camilli
    Lou Boudreau Silver King
    Don Drysdale Mark Belanger
    34 0-102
    Chet Lemon l3
    George Uhle
    Jim Edmonds
    Ken Williams
    Nap LaJoie l4
    Ferguson Jenkins
    Bob Gibson
    Tommy McCarthy
    35 0-103
    Cal McVey l5
    Kenny Lofton
    Dazzy Vance
    Al Orth
    Al Rosen l6
    Kenny Rogers
    Carl Mays
    Rollie Fingers
    36 0-104
    John Olerud l7
    Javier Vazquez
    Jake Beckley
    Frank Thomas
    Dan Brouthers l8
    Al Oliver
    Paul Waner
    Manny Ramirez
    37 0-105
    Johan Santana l9
    Harmon Killebrew
    Jack Glasscock
    Nellie Fox
    John Clarkson l10
    Steve Garvey
    Honus Wagner
    Pedro Martinez
    38 0-106
    Ed Walsh l11
    Jim Whitney
    Whitey Ford
    Bill Donovan
    Fernando Valenzuela l12
    Edd roush
    Wally Berger
    Jesse Haines
    39 0-107
    Don Mattingly l13
    Hack Wilson
    Mike Cameron
    Eddie Rommel
    Edgar Martinez l14
    John Hiller
    Frank Viola
    Dave Concepcion
    40 0-108
    Claude Passeau l15
    Dennis Martinez
    George Peckinpaugh
    Phil Rizzuto
    Rick Reuschel l16
    Larry Doby
    Roy Campanella
    Willie Keeler
    41 0-109
    Ivan Rodriguez l17
    Jim Sundberg
    Mordecai Brown
    Frank Robinson
    Steve Rogers l18
    Devon White
    Jack Fournier
    Brad Radle
    42 0-110
    Al Dark l19
    Frankie Frisch
    Bob Elliott
    Jim McCormick
    Orlando Hernandez l20
    Ron Santo
    Bill Dickey
    Deacon White
    43 0-111
    Orlando Cepeda l21
    Murry Dickson
    Wes Ferrell
    Amos Otis
    Carlos Zambrano l22
    George Kelly
    Bob Shawkey
    Ray Schalk
    44 0-112
    Omar Vizquel l23
    Alan Trammell
    Herb Pennock
    Mike Griffin
    George Van Haltren l24
    Tony Mullane
    Andruw Jones
    Amos Rusie
    45 0-113
    Lee Smith l25
    Earl Averill
    Dan Quisenberry
    Mel Ott
    Red Lucas l26
    Felipe Alou
    Jose Cruz
    Dwight Evans
    46 0-114
    Earle Combs l27
    Freddie Lindstrom
    Bid McPhee
    Richie Ashburn
    Ed Delahanty l28
    Red Schoendienst
    Andy Pettitte
    Jack Clark
    47 0-115
    Tony Gwynn l29
    Goose 1gossage
    George Sisler
    Stan Hack
    Sal Bando l30
    Pee Wee Reese
    Ted Simmons
    John Franco
    48 0-116
    Ted Breitenstein l31
    Steve Carlton
    Darrell Evans
    Andy Van Slyke
    Ozzie Smith l32
    Kid Nichols
    Tony Perez
    Joe Medwick
    49 0-117
    Chick Hafey l33
    Dave Winfield
    Bert Blyleven
    Bobo Newsom
    Maury Wills l34
    Charlie Keller
    Darrell Porter
    Jim Fregosi
    50 0-118
    Jeff Bagwell l35
    Hal Newhouser
    Rogers Hornsby
    Thurman Munson
    Roy Oswalt l36
    Bruce Sutter
    Willie Wilson
    Julio Franco
    51 0-119
    Jimmy Collins l37
    Carl Yastrzemski
    Mickey Cochrane
    David Wells
    Larry Walker l38
    Ellis Burks
    Eddie Plank
    Tim Keefe
    52 0-120
    Ned Williamson l39
    Frank Chance
    Fred Clarke
    Jim Thome
    John Smoltz l40
    Bobby Mathews
    Stan Coveleski
    Fred McGriff
    53 0-121
    Paul Hines l41
    Billy Hamilton
    Harry Brecheen
    Roy Thomas
    Bill Mazeroski l42
    Jim Rice
    Mark Langston
    Tony Phillips
    54 0-122
    Minnie Minoso l43
    Jesse Tannehill
    Yogi Berra
    Willie Davis
    Hippo Vaughn l44
    Mel Stottlemyre
    Billy Wagner
    Jimmy Ryan
    55 0-123
    Robin Ventura l45
    Dom DiMaggio
    Willie Mays
    Johnny Damon
    Stan Musial l46
    Ryne Sandberg
    Vladimir Guerrero
    Tom Glavine
    56 0-124
    Don Newcombe l47
    Bill Dahlen
    Mike Piazza
    Joe Jackson
    Bobby Abreu l48
    Todd Helton
    Tommy Bridges
    Pud Galvin
    57 0-125
    Mariano Rivera l49
    Tom Seaver
    Vida Blue
    Goose Goslin
    Tris Speaker l50
    Mike Tiernan
    Jack Powell
    Robin Roberts
    58 0-126
    Fred Lynn l51
    Gary Sheffield
    Bobby Grich
    Dennis Eckersley
    Orel Hershiser l52
    Frank Tanana
    Bill Freehan
    Bill Terry
    59 0-127
    Dave Bancroft l53
    Ernie Banks
    Ken Griffey, Jr.
    Buck Ewing
    Dale Murphy l54
    George Gore
    Warren Spahn
    Jim Perry
    60 0-128
    Al Kaline l55
    Cap Anson
    Joe Carter
    Jim Bottomley
    Joe Sewell l56
    Sam McDowell
    Scott Rolen
    Mickey Lolich
    61 0-129
    Johnny Mize l57
    Lloyd Waner
    Gabby Hartnett
    Joe Judge
    Urban Shocker l58
    Early Wynn
    Willie McCovey
    Keith Hernandez
    62 0-130
    Larry Doyle l59
    Jason Giambi
    Babe Herman
    Carlos Beltran
    Red Faber l60
    Tommy John
    Bernie Williams
    Fielder Jones
    Adrian Beltre 0-131
    Tom Candiotti l61
    Lenny Dykstra
    Wilbur Cooper
    Mike Schmidt
    Joe Mauer l62
    Juan Gonzalez
    Brooks Robinson
    Pete Rose
    64 0-132
    Christy Mathewson l63
    Hank Greenberg
    Roy Halladay
    Lon Warneke
    Zack Wheat l64
    Milt Pappas
    Mike Mussina
    Ron Cey
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.


    • #3
      Here's our third group of players:
      Kevin Brown
      Jim Kaat
      Jim Bunning
      Chuck Finley
      Doug DeCinces
      Bob Feller
      Charley Jones
      Joe Start
      Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
      Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
      A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.


      • #4
        My ballot

        1. Feller
        2. Bunning
        3. Start
        4. C. Finley
        5. Kaat
        6. K Brown
        7; C Jones
        8. DeCinces
        Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
        Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
        A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.


        • #5
          1. Bob Feller
          2. Kevin Brown
          3. Chuck Finley
          4. Jim Bunning
          5. Doug DeCinces
          6. Joe Start
          7. Charley Jones
          8. Jim Kaat


          • #6
            1. Bob Feller
            2. Joe Start
            3. Jim Bunning
            4. Kevin Brown
            5. Chuck Finley
            6. Charley Jones
            7. Jim Kaat
            8. Doug DeCinces


            • #7
              1. Bob Feller
              2. Jim Bunning
              3. Kevin Brown
              4. Joe Start
              5. Chuck Finley
              6. Charley Jones
              7. Doug DeCinces
              8. Jim Kaat
              "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
              "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
              "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
              "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe


              • #8
                1. Bob Feller
                2. Kevin Brown
                3. Jim Bunning
                4. Jim Kaat
                5. Chuck Finley
                6. Charley Jones
                7. Joe Start
                8. Doug DeCinces
                Last edited by dgarza; 12-01-2018, 05:34 PM.


                • #9
                  1. Bob Feller
                  2. Jim Bunning
                  3. Kevin Brown
                  4. Joe Start
                  5.Jim Kaat
                  6. Doug DeCiinces
                  7. Chuck Finley
                  8. Charley Jones

                  Very tough call after 1 and 2. Kaat, Brown and Start are very close and all above the line for me.


                  • #10
                    1. Bob Feller
                    2. Jim Bunning
                    3. Kevin Brown
                    4. Joe Start
                    5. Chuck Finley
                    6. Jim Kaat
                    7. Charley Jones
                    8. Doug DeCinces


                    • #11
                      Stacked ballot, particularly compared to round 2:

                      1. Bob Feller
                      2. Kevin Brown
                      3. Jim Bunning
                      4. Joe Start
                      5. Charley Jones
                      6. Jim Kaat

                      7. Chuck Finley
                      8. Doug DeCinces
                      Jacquelyn Eva Marchand (1983-2017)


                      • #12
                        1. Feller
                        2. Brown
                        3. Bunning
                        4. Start
                        5. Jones
                        6. Finley
                        7. Kaat
                        8. DeCinces
                        1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

                        1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

                        1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015

                        The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
                        The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History


                        • #13
                          1. Bob Feller
                          2. Kevin Brown
                          3. Jim Bunning
                          4. Jim Kaat
                          5. Chuck Finley
                          6. Joe Start
                          7. Charley Jones
                          8. Doug DeCinces


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by dgarza

                            No. I have limited time on my hands. And really I'm more interested in communal threads rather than ones devoted to any one individual's approach/concept/blogging.

                            And honestly, I shouldn't have to be familiar with one person's "personal thread" to know what we're talking about in this thread.
                            You guys are both correct, you shouldn't have to be familar with Jim's Musings, but Savoy is correct in saying that it's the best thing at Fever or at least quite impressive and valuable to all of us.
                            Jacquelyn Eva Marchand (1983-2017)


                            • #15
                              I'm surprised to see Charley Jones ranked as high as 5th on some ballots. As far as I know, he had 3 standout seasons, two of which were in the AA and one of which was in the very early days of the NL. There's not enough career bulk or pioneering elements to his career to justify ranking him ahead of any of the other players in this group, IMO.


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