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  • Hall of Fame Swap Meet

    Gentlemen, let us suppose that we live in a world where we could "kick out" the Cooperstown's weaker or more dubious members and replace them with better choices. Who would be swapped out for whom, were you in charge of the exchange?

    Here are the rules:

    1. Individuals may be traded on a one-for-one basis.
    2. The goal is to raise the lowest common denominator among inductees to a more consistent line (with less gray area).
    3. You are not required to keep the same number of players per position; you may swap out a shortstop in exchange for a center fielder.
    4. You are required to keep the same number of negro leaguers; you may not swap a negro league player for a major leaguer.
    5. You must assume the Hall of Fame's membership to be what it was before the 2019 elections. (No Harold Baines or Lee Smith.)
    6. You may not include any player newly eligible for the 2019 BBWAA ballot. (No Mariano Rivera or Roy Halladay.)

    Have fun, gentlemen, and may the progeny of Tommy McCarthy forgive us.
    Last edited by Chadwick; 01-12-2019, 04:23 PM.
    "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
    "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
    "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
    "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

  • #2
    My Swap Meet

    Catcher
    Replace Ray Schalk and Rick Ferrell with Thurman Munson and Ted Simmons.

    First Base
    Replace Jim Bottomley, Frank Chance, Orlando Cepeda and George Kelly with Norm Cash, Keith Hernandez, Mark McGwire and Rafael Palmeiro.

    Second Base
    Replace Nellie Fox, Tony Lazzeri, Bill Mazeroski and Red Schoendienst with Bobby Grich, Jeff Kent, Willie Randolph and Lou Whitaker.

    Third Base
    Replace George Kell, Freddie Lindstrom and Pie Traynor with Dick Allen, Ken Boyer and Scott Rolen.

    Shortstop
    Replace Luis Aparicio, Travis Jackson, Rabbit Maranville and Phil Rizzuto with Bill Dahlen, Jack Glasscock, Edgar Martinez (DH) and Graig Nettles (3B).

    Left Fielders
    Replace Lou Brock, Chick Hafey, Heinie Manush and Jim Rice with Barry Bonds, Sherry Magee, Minnie Minoso and Manny Ramirez.

    Center Fielders
    Replace Earl Averill, Earle Combs, Hugh Duffy, Edd Roush, Lloyd Waner and Hack Wilson with Paul Hines, Jim Edmonds, Andruw Jones, Kenny Lofton, Dale Murphy and Jimmy Wynn.

    Right Fielders
    Replace Kiki Cuyler, Chuck Klein, Tommy McCarthy, Sam Rice, Sam Thompson and Ross Youngs with Bobby Bonds, Dwight Evans, Gary Sheffield, Reggie Smith, Sammy Sosa and Larry Walker.

    Pitchers
    Replace Chief Bender, Jack Chesbro, Rollie Fingers, Lefty Gomez, Burleigh Grimes, Jesse Haines, Trevor Hoffman, Waite Hoyt, Catfish Hunter, Addie Joss, Rube Marquard, Jack Morris, Herb Pennock, Eppa Rixey and Bruce Sutter with Kevin Brown, Roger Clemens, David Cone, Wes Ferrell, Orel Hershiser, Mike Mussina, Billy Pierce, Rick Reuschel, Bret Saberhagen, Johan Santana, Curt Schilling, Urban Shocker, Dave Stieb, Luis Tiant and Bucky Walters.

    Negro League Players
    Replace Willard Brown, Ray Dandridge, Leon Day, Judy Johnson with John Beckwith, Grant Johnson, Alejandro Oms and Dick Redding.

    Managers
    Replace Wilbert Robinson with Jim Leyland.

    Executives
    Replace Morgan Bulkeley, Alexander Cartwright, Warren Giles, Will Harridge, Bowie Kuhn and Tom Yawkey with Doc Adams, Buzzie Bavasi, Sam Breadon, Harry Dalton, Bob Howsam and Marvin Miller.

    Umpires
    none

    Negro League Contributors
    Replace Effa Manley with Buck O’Neil.
    Last edited by Chadwick; 01-12-2019, 10:09 AM.
    "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
    "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
    "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
    "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

    Comment


    • #3
      I will respond in full later, but Joe Torre is already in the Hall as a manager...

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Chadwick View Post
        Have fun, gentlemen, and may the ancestors of Tommy McCarthy forgive us.
        Be careful. I heard they've perfected the hit & run.

        "No matter how great you were once upon a time — the years go by, and men forget,” - W. A. Phelon in Baseball Magazine in 1915. “Ross Barnes, forty years ago, was as great as Cobb or Wagner ever dared to be. Had scores been kept then as now, he would have seemed incomparably marvelous.”

        Comment


        • #5
          Out (74)
          Aparicio, Luis
          Averill, Earl
          Bancroft, Dave
          Bender, Chief
          Bottomley, Jim
          Bresnahan, Roger
          Brock, Lou
          Carey, Max
          Cepeda, Orlando
          Chesbro, Jack
          Combs, Earle
          Cuyler, Kiki
          Duffy, Hugh
          Evers, Johnny
          Faber, Red
          Ferrell, Rick
          Fingers, Rollie
          Fox, Nellie
          Galvin, Pud
          Gomez, Lefty
          Gossage, Rich
          Grimes, Burleigh
          Hafey, Chick
          Haines, Jesse
          Hoffman, Trevor
          Hooper, Harry
          Hoyt, Waite
          Hunter, Catfish
          Jackson, Travis
          Jennings, Hughie
          Joss, Addie
          Keeler, Willie
          Kell, George
          Kelley, Joe
          Kelly, High Pockets
          Kelly, King
          Klein, Chuck
          Lazzeri, Tony
          Lemon, Bob
          Lindstrom, Freddie
          Lombardi, Ernie
          Manush, Heinie
          Maranville, Rabbit
          Marquard, Rube
          Mazeroski, Bill
          McCarthy, Tommy
          McPhee, Bid
          Morris, Jack
          O'Rourke, Jim
          Pennock, Herb
          Perez, Tony
          Rice, Jim
          Rice, Sam
          Rixey, Eppa
          Rizzuto, Phil
          Roush, Edd
          Ruffing, Red
          Schalk, Ray
          Schoendienst, Red
          Sewell, Joe
          Sisler, George
          Slaughter, Enos
          Sutter, Bruce
          Sutton, Don
          Thompson, Sam
          Traynor, Pie
          Waner, Lloyd
          Ward, John
          Welch, Mickey
          White, Deacon
          Wilson, Hack
          Winfield, Dave
          Wynn, Early
          Youngs, Ross

          In (74)
          Adams, Babe
          Allen, Dick
          Appier, Kevin
          Bando, Sal
          Bell, Buddy
          Bonds, Barry
          Bonds, Bobby
          Boyer, Ken
          Brown, Kevin
          Browning, Pete
          Buffinton, Charlie
          Caruthers, Bob
          Cedeno, Cesar
          Cey, Ron
          Cicotte, Eddie
          Clark, Will
          Clemens, Roger
          Cone, David
          Dahlen, Bill
          Davis, Willie
          Dykstra, Lenny
          Edmonds, Jim
          Evans, Dwight
          Ferrell, Wes
          Finley, Chuck
          Fletcher, Art
          Giles, Brian
          Glasscock, Jack
          Gooden, Dwight
          Grich, Bobby
          Groh, Heinie
          Hahn, Noodles
          Hernandez, Keith
          Hershiser, Orel
          Jackson, Shoeless Joe
          Johnson, Bob
          Jones, Andruw
          Keller, Charlie
          Kent, Jeff
          King, Silver
          Lemon, Chet
          Lofton, Kenny
          Magee, Sherry
          Martinez, Edgar
          McCormick, Jim
          McGwire, Mark
          Minoso, Minnie
          Mullane, Tony
          Mussina, Mike
          Nettles, Graig
          Olerud, John
          Palmeiro, Rafael
          Ramirez, Manny
          Randolph, Willie
          Reuschel, Rick
          Rolen, Scott
          Rose, Pete
          Rucker, Nap
          Saberhagen, Bret
          Santana, Johan
          Schilling, Curt
          Shocker, Urban
          Smith, Reggie
          Sosa, Sammy
          Stieb, Dave
          Stovey, Harry
          Tenace, Gene
          Tiant, Luis
          Trout, Dizzy
          Ventura, Robin
          Walker, Larry
          Whitaker, Lou
          Wynn, Jim
          Zambrano, Carlos

          Would also put in if had room (5)
          Cash, Norm
          Clark, Jack
          Guidry, Ron
          Munson, Thurman
          Sheffield, Gary
          *** Submit your personal HOF as your ballot for the Single Ballot BBF Hall of Fame! *** Also: Buck the Fraves!

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Chadwick View Post
            Second Base
            with Bobby Grich,

            Third Base
            Replace Pie Traynor

            Hart is having a seizure right now!
            .


            19th Century League Champion
            1900s League Champion
            1910s League Champion

            1930s League Division Winner
            1950s League Champion
            1960 Strat-O-Matic League Regular Season Winner
            1960s League Division Winner
            1970s League Champion
            1971 Strat-O-Matic League Runner Up
            1980s League Champion
            All Time Greats League Champion

            Comment


            • #7
              Well, going by my personal Hall (this is not including those not yet eligible for HOF voting)...

              STARTING PITCHER (14)

              In

              Roger Clemens
              Jim McCormick
              Curt Schilling
              Mike Mussina
              Tommy Bond
              Charlie Buffinton
              Rick Reuschel
              Kevin Brown
              Luis Tiant
              David Cone
              Bret Saberhagen
              Dave Stieb
              Tommy John
              Johan Santana

              Out
              Red Ruffing
              Red Faber
              Don Sutton
              Early Wynn
              Burleigh Grimes
              Eppa Rixey
              Jack Chesbro
              Herb Pennock
              Jack Morris
              Catfish Hunter
              Rube Marquard
              Jesse Haines
              Addie Joss
              Chief Bender
              Lefty Gomez
              RELIEF PITCHER (2)

              In
              Billy Wagner
              Eric Gagne

              Out
              Bruce Sutter
              Rollie Fingers
              CATCHER (2)

              In
              Ted Simmons
              Bill Freehan

              Out
              Ray Schalk
              Rick Ferrell
              FIRST BASE (4)

              In
              Mark McGwire
              Keith Hernandez
              Will Clark
              Fred McGriff

              Out
              Tony Perez
              Frank Chance
              Jim Bottomley
              High Pockets Kelly
              SECOND BASE (4)

              In
              Bobby Grich
              Lou Whitaker
              Willie Randolph
              Jeff Kent

              Out
              Bid McPhee
              Johnny Evers
              Red Schoendienst
              Bucky Harris
              SHORTSTOP (3)

              In
              Bill Dahlen
              Jack Glasscock
              Mark Belanger

              Out
              Rabbit Maranville
              John Ward
              George Wright
              THIRD BASE (4)

              In
              Scott Rolen
              Edgar Martinez
              Graig Nettles
              Ken Boyer

              Out
              Home Run Baker
              George Kell
              Pie Traynor
              Freddie Lindstrom
              LEFT FIELD (3)

              In
              Barry Bonds
              Pete Rose
              Manny Ramirez

              Out
              Lou Brock
              Jim O'Rourke
              Chick Hafey
              CENTER FIELD (4)

              In
              Kenny Lofton
              Andruw Jones
              Jim Edmonds
              Jim Wynn

              Out
              Earle Combs
              Edd Roush
              Hack Wilson
              Lloyd Waner
              RIGHT FIELD (3)

              In
              Larry Walker
              Shoeless Joe Jackson
              Dwight Evans

              Out
              Harry Hooper
              Ross Youngs
              Tommy McCarthy
              EXEC/PIONEER (1)

              In
              Lena Blackburne

              Out
              Candy Cummings
              TOTAL SWAPS: 44

              Comment


              • #8
                I've never heard of anyone backing Eric Gagne for the HOF before. He was really good for a few years, but so have been dozens of closers...I don't see it.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Chadwick View Post
                  Gen

                  Have fun, gentlemen, and may the ancestors of Tommy McCarthy forgive us.
                  Descendants?

                  Originally posted by SavoyBG View Post


                  Hart is having a seizure right now!
                  I'm wary a bit too...I'll have to chug a couple gallons of some heart medication.
                  The 1980 Chicago White Sox: Where Minnie Minoso played the final game of a career beginning in 1949 and Harold Baines played the first game of a career ending in 2001.

                  Play the Who am I? game in trivia and you can make this signature line yours for 3 days (baseball signatures only!)

                  Go here for a link to all player links! http://www.baseball-fever.com/forum/...player-threads

                  Go here for all your 1920's/1930's OF info

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Cougar View Post
                    I've never heard of anyone backing Eric Gagne for the HOF before. He was really good for a few years, but so have been dozens of closers...I don't see it.
                    Quisenberry and Hiller were much better!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by pedrosrotatorcuff View Post
                      Well, going by my personal Hall (this is not including those not yet eligible for HOF voting)...
                      Looks like you booted out 15 starting pitchers but only brought in 14.
                      *** Submit your personal HOF as your ballot for the Single Ballot BBF Hall of Fame! *** Also: Buck the Fraves!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by pedrosrotatorcuff View Post
                        In
                        Bobby Grich
                        Lou Whitaker
                        Willie Randolph
                        Jeff Kent

                        Out
                        Bid McPhee
                        Johnny Evers
                        Red Schoendienst
                        Bucky Harris
                        SHORTSTOP (3)

                        In
                        Bill Dahlen
                        Jack Glasscock
                        Mark Belanger

                        Out
                        Rabbit Maranville
                        John Ward
                        George Wright
                        Bucky Harris is in Cooperstown as a manager and George Wright is in Cooperstown as an executive/pioneer so you'll need to reconsider those two swaps.
                        "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
                        "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
                        "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
                        "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Chadwick View Post
                          Bucky Harris is in Cooperstown as a manager and George Wright is in Cooperstown as an executive/pioneer so you'll need to reconsider those two swaps.
                          There is also John Ward who was not just a short stop. He was also a pitcher, manager, executive and one of the most important figures from his era of baseball. Even his SABR bio doesn't do him justice. He is an inner circle HOFer and it is very disheartening to see 2 users dismiss him like they have:

                          https://sabr.org/bioproj/person/2de3f6ef
                          Last edited by jjpm74; 01-12-2019, 06:26 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Chadwick View Post
                            Left Fielders
                            Replace Lou Brock, Chick Hafey, Heinie Manush and Jim Rice with Barry Bonds, Sherry Magee, Minnie Minoso and Manny Ramirez.
                            How is Minnie Minoso an improvement on Lou Brock?

                            Catcher:
                            Replace Rick Ferrell with Ted Simmons

                            First Base:
                            Replace High Pockets Kelly & Jim Bottomley with Joe Start & Fred McGriff

                            Second Base:
                            Replace Red Schoendienst with Ross Barnes

                            Third Base:
                            Replace Freddie Lindstrom & George Kell with Dick Allen & Heinie Groh

                            Shortstop:
                            Replace Travis Jackson & Phil Rizzuto with Jack Glasscock & Bad Bill Dahlen

                            Left Field:
                            Replace Chick Hafey & Jim Rice with Sherry Magee & Lance Berkman

                            Center Field:
                            Replace Lloyd Waner, Hack Wilson & Earle Combs with Dale Murphy, Kenny Lofton & Andruw Jones

                            Right Field:
                            Replace Tommy McCarthy & Ross Youngs with Larry Walker & Tony Oliva

                            Designated Hitter:
                            Replace Harold Baines with Edgar Martinez

                            Starting Pitchers:
                            Replace Jack Chesbro, Pop Haines, Rube Marquard, Lefty Gomez, Waite Hoyt, Herb Pennock & Hal Newhouser with...

                            ...Curt Schilling, Mike Mussina, Bobby Mathews, Wes Ferrell, Luis Tiant, David Cone & Bret Saberhagen

                            Relief Pitchers:
                            Replace Lee Smith with Billy Wagner

                            Last edited by bluesky5; 01-12-2019, 09:13 PM.
                            "No matter how great you were once upon a time — the years go by, and men forget,” - W. A. Phelon in Baseball Magazine in 1915. “Ross Barnes, forty years ago, was as great as Cobb or Wagner ever dared to be. Had scores been kept then as now, he would have seemed incomparably marvelous.”

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              If there actually was a major problem with the HOF, replacing widely popular Baseball cultural touchstones like Lou Brock and Catfish Hunter with nonentities like Kevin Brown and Rick Reuschel wouldn't do much to allay it.

                              3 6 10 21 29 31 35 41 42 44 47

                              "All of which makes perfect sense on paper, unless you have actually at any time in your life watched baseball being played." - The Commissioner

                              Comment

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