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Rank the Top 25 Catchers Not in the Hall

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  • #16
    1. Joe Mauer
    2. Ted Simmons
    3. Buster Posey
    4. Katsuya Nomura
    5. Thurman Munson
    6. Quincy Trouppe
    7. Yadier Molina
    8. Russell Martin
    9. Wally Schang
    10. Charlie Bennett
    11. Brian McCann
    12. Bill Freehan
    13. Gene Tenace
    14. Jim Sundberg
    15. Lance Parrish
    16. Elston Howard
    17. Cal McVey
    18. Jorge Posada
    19. Darrell Porter
    20. Sherm Lollar
    21. Jack Clements
    22. Tom Haller
    23. Jason Kendall
    24. Javy Lopez
    25. Walker Cooper
    "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
    "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
    "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
    "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

    Comment


    • #17
      1. Ted Simmons
      2. Joe Mauer
      3. Bill Freehan
      4. Yadier Molina
      5. Buster Posey
      6. Quincy Trouppe
      7. Thurman Munson
      8. Charlie Bennett
      9. Brian McCann
      10. Wally Schang
      11. Jorge Posada
      12. Elston Howard
      13. Lance Parrish
      14. Russell Martin
      15. Gene Tenace
      16. Darrell Porter
      17. Jason Kendall
      18. Javy Lopez
      19. Jim Sundberg
      20. Victor Martinez - he has DH'd more than C but Torre used to make these lists
      21. Bob Boone
      22. Jack Clements
      23. Deacon McGuire
      24. Johnny Kling
      25. Sherm Lollar

      by the late teens it's pretty random

      Comment


      • #18
        1. Ted Simmons
        2. Joe Mauer
        3. Cal McVey
        4. Buster Posey
        5. Jorge Posada
        6. Yadier Molina
        7. Thurman Munson
        8. Bill Freehan
        9. Jason Kendall
        10. Gene Tenace
        11. Brian McCann
        12. Wally Schang
        13. Walker Cooper
        14. Charlie Bennett
        15. Victor Martinez
        16. Russell Martin
        17. Javy Lopez
        18. Elston Howard
        19. AJ Pierzynski
        20. Del Crandall
        21. Deacon McGuire
        22. Darrell Porter
        23. Bob Boone
        24. Mickey Tettleton
        25. Sherm Lollar
        HM. Quincy Trouppe

        Comment


        • #19
          I thought I'd post a few links to bios of players who were either pioneers in some way or who for various reasons, we do not know enough about to comfortably place them in the top 25:

          1. Bruce Petway - If only we had better defensive stats for NeL players. Bruce Petway would potentially be up there with Jim Sundberg and Bob Boone as one of the all time great catchers. As it is, there is a lot of supposition when it comes to his defensive ability, which is what gave me pause when considering him for the top 25. More on him in his SABR Bio:

          https://sabr.org/bioproj/person/9a57c095

          Either way, he was a noteworthy catcher who I thought was worth a mention in this thread.

          2. Doug Allison - Another really early figure worth a visit to is Doug Allison, who may deserve consideration for the HOF as a pioneer of the game:

          https://sabr.org/bioproj/person/dc86c546

          3. Nat Hicks - Nat Hicks was catcher for the NY Mutuals and credited with creeping closer to the hitters. It lead to some bad injuries, but still an interesting early figure:

          https://sabr.org/research/evolution-catchers-equipment

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nat_Hicks

          4. Fleet Walker - Last but not least, we have Moses Fleet Walker who was the first African American to play professional baseball and who's career path was blocked by Cap Anson and the color barrier:

          https://sabr.org/bioproj/person/9fc5f867

          Comment


          • #20
            Chief Meyers should be on more of these lists. Catchers with most WAR ages 29-35, through 1960:
            Code:
            Player          WAR/  WAA/ OPS+ Rfield   PA From   To
            Bill Dickey     29.2  18.4  129   36.0 3295 1936 1942 H
            Gabby Hartnett  29.0  17.8  126   40.0 3429 1930 1936 H
            Yogi Berra      28.4  16.7  125   16.5 3808 1954 1960 H
            Roy Campanella  24.9  11.6  122   22.0 3494 1951 1957 H
            Mickey Cochrane 23.5  14.6  135    4.0 2515 1932 1937 H
            Ernie Lombardi  23.2  13.1  131   -8.0 2918 1937 1943 H
            Chief Meyers    22.3  13.6  118   15.0 2755 1910 1916
            Charlie Bennett 22.1  14.4  121   87.0 2162 1884 1890
            Wally Schang    18.7   8.2  113   -3.0 2818 1919 1925
            Roger Bresnahan 18.7  12.0  127    7.0 2056 1908 1914 H
            Chief Zimmer    18.3   8.7   95  105.0 2777 1890 1896
            Si quaeris peninsulam amoenam, circumspice.

            Comprehensive Reform for the Veterans Committee -- Fixing the Hall continued.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Freakshow View Post
              Chief Meyers should be on more of these lists. Catchers with most WAR ages 29-35, through 1960:
              Code:
              Player WAR/ WAA/ OPS+ Rfield PA From To
              Bill Dickey 29.2 18.4 129 36.0 3295 1936 1942 H
              Gabby Hartnett 29.0 17.8 126 40.0 3429 1930 1936 H
              Yogi Berra 28.4 16.7 125 16.5 3808 1954 1960 H
              Roy Campanella 24.9 11.6 122 22.0 3494 1951 1957 H
              Mickey Cochrane 23.5 14.6 135 4.0 2515 1932 1937 H
              Ernie Lombardi 23.2 13.1 131 -8.0 2918 1937 1943 H
              Chief Meyers 22.3 13.6 118 15.0 2755 1910 1916
              Charlie Bennett 22.1 14.4 121 87.0 2162 1884 1890
              Wally Schang 18.7 8.2 113 -3.0 2818 1919 1925
              Roger Bresnahan 18.7 12.0 127 7.0 2056 1908 1914 H
              Chief Zimmer 18.3 8.7 95 105.0 2777 1890 1896
              Why'd you omit his 1909 and 1917 seasons from this? I like Meyer, but his entire MLB career spanned 9 seasons and he was productive for 8 of those 9.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by jjpm74 View Post

                Why'd you omit his 1909 and 1917 seasons from this? I like Meyer, but his entire MLB career spanned 9 seasons and he was productive for 8 of those 9.
                Read his story. You're usually among the first to grant hypothetical or pioneering credit, IIRC.

                Catchers with most WAR ages 28-36, through 1932:
                Code:
                Player           WAR/  WAA/ OPS+ Rfield   PA From   To
                Charlie Bennett  28.5  18.3  121  113.0 2860 1883 1891
                Chief Meyers     25.2  14.9  117   14.0 3237 1909 1917
                King Kelly       24.5  14.1  135   -9.0 3322 1886 1893
                Wally Schang     23.4  10.6  114   -1.0 3427 1918 1926
                Roger Bresnahan  23.2  14.3  122    7.0 2711 1907 1915
                Chief Zimmer     21.7   9.9   97  112.0 3409 1889 1897
                Johnny Kling     18.6   8.2   97   33.0 3098 1904 1912
                Bubbles Hargrave 16.5   8.1  122  -18.0 2671 1921 1928
                Hank Severeid    16.5   4.0   92   34.0 3346 1919 1926
                Duke Farrell     15.2   5.9  103   25.0 2627 1895 1903
                Johnny Bassler   15.1   8.2  106   25.0 1852 1923 1927
                Deacon McGuire   14.8   2.2  104  -38.0 3667 1892 1900
                Last edited by Freakshow; 05-15-2019, 10:50 AM.
                Si quaeris peninsulam amoenam, circumspice.

                Comprehensive Reform for the Veterans Committee -- Fixing the Hall continued.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by dgarza View Post
                  20. Del Crandall
                  I was wondering if anyone was going to mention him.

                  3 6 10 21 29 31 35 41 42 44 47

                  "All of which makes perfect sense on paper, unless you have actually at any time in your life watched baseball being played." - The Commissioner

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Freakshow View Post
                    Read his story. You're usually among the first to grant hypothetical or pioneering credit, IIRC.
                    Yes, I do give a boost to players who were pioneers.

                    I know his story. It came down to him or Gowdy for me and I put up Gowdy because I figured someone would bring up Meyers.

                    For anyone else interested, here's his SABR bio:

                    https://sabr.org/bioproj/person/d090eef4
                    Last edited by jjpm74; 05-15-2019, 01:23 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      1. Buster Posey
                      2. Thurman Munson
                      3. Joe Mauer
                      4. Charlie Bennett
                      5. Bill Freehan
                      6. Ted Simmons
                      (Joe Torre)
                      7. Yadier Molina (looks like my rating of Molina is lower than the consensus. Strange considering how many times here I have called a homer in this regard)
                      8. Wally Schang
                      9. Russell Martin
                      10. Brian McCann
                      11. Elston Howard
                      12. Jim Sundberg
                      13. Cal McVey
                      14. Lance Parrish
                      15. Gene Tennace
                      16. Javy Lopez
                      17. Darrell Porter
                      18. Mike Sciosia
                      19. Tony Pena
                      20. Jack Clements
                      21. Deacon McGuire
                      22. Jorge Posada
                      23. Jason Kendell
                      24. Bob Boone
                      25. Chief Meyers

                      I have Radcliffe and Trouppe in my HOF too. Not sure where the would fit in here exactly.
                      Last edited by Bothrops Atrox; 05-15-2019, 05:29 PM.
                      1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

                      1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

                      1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


                      The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
                      The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Bothrops Atrox View Post
                        7. Joe Torre
                        8. Yadier Molina (looks like my rating of Molina is lower than the consensus. Strange considering how many times here I have called a homer in this regard)
                        Remove Torre (who is already enshrined in Cooperstown) and Molina moves up to #7. Then you'll have company with the "low" rating for Yadi.
                        "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
                        "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
                        "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
                        "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Chadwick View Post
                          Remove Torre (who is already enshrined in Cooperstown) and Molina moves up to #7. Then you'll have company with the "low" rating for Yadi.
                          I already saw nobody else put Torre in their list, so I already removed him, but left his name in parentheses.
                          1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

                          1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

                          1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


                          The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
                          The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Bothrops Atrox View Post
                            1. Buster Posey
                            2. Thurman Munson
                            3. Joe Mauer
                            4. Charlie Bennett
                            5. Bill Freehan
                            6. Ted Simmons
                            (Joe Torre)
                            7. Yadier Molina (looks like my rating of Molina is lower than the consensus. Strange considering how many times here I have called a homer in this regard)
                            8. Wally Schang
                            9. Russell Martin
                            10. Brian McCann
                            11. Elston Howard
                            12. Jim Sundberg
                            13. Cal McVey
                            14. Lance Parrish
                            15. Gene Tennace
                            16. Javy Lopez
                            17. Darrell Porter
                            18. Mike Sciosia
                            19. Tony Pena
                            20. Jack Clements
                            21. Deacon McGuire
                            22. Jorge Posada
                            23. Jason Kendell
                            24. Bob Boone
                            25. Chief Meyers

                            I have Radcliffe and Trouppe in my HOF too. Not sure where the would fit in here exactly.
                            I was a little surprised you had Yadier below Mauer...

                            Where is your HOF line? Between Howard and Sundberg?
                            R.I.P. Scott Sanderson (1956-2019)


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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Toledo Inquisition View Post

                              I was a little surprised you had Yadier below Mauer...

                              Where is your HOF line? Between Howard and Sundberg?
                              Correct...
                              1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

                              1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

                              1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


                              The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
                              The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Great thread Stieb, catchers are so tough, I will hopefully try my hand at this soon.
                                Jacquelyn Eva Marchand (1983-2017)
                                http://www.tezakfuneralhome.com/noti...uelyn-Marchand

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