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When will we see a SP elected to the HOF with less than career 150 wins?

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  • #46
    Originally posted by jjpm74 View Post

    Can you see Kershaw topping 200 again? I am not confident in him pitching a full season and staying healthy moving forward.
    I agree I'm just pointing out that all signs say 225 innings pitched isn't going to happen again. I've been rambling on for a while about dwindling CG and IP totals and it seems like it hasn't set in with some folks how low innings pitched totals are. HWR said something a month or so ago about "if he can get near 250 IP" and I was like what is it 2002? We're quickly closing in on innings pitched leaders in the 175 range. 5-7 years I'd say.
    "No matter how great you were once upon a time — the years go by, and men forget,” - W. A. Phelon in Baseball Magazine in 1915. “Ross Barnes, forty years ago, was as great as Cobb or Wagner ever dared to be. Had scores been kept then as now, he would have seemed incomparably marvelous.”

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    • #47
      Originally posted by bluesky5 View Post

      I agree I'm just pointing out that all signs say 225 innings pitched isn't going to happen again. I've been rambling on for a while about dwindling CG and IP totals and it seems like it hasn't set in with some folks how low innings pitched totals are. HWR said something a month or so ago about "if he can get near 250 IP" and I was like what is it 2002? We're quickly closing in on innings pitched leaders in the 175 range. 5-7 years I'd say.
      Good point.

      It seems to be part of being human that individuals often recognize change only after it happens, rather than during.
      "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
      "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
      "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
      "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Chadwick View Post
        Good point.

        It seems to be part of being human that individuals often recognize change only after it happens, rather than during.
        --Future HoFer Zack Greinke just got pulled in game 7 of the World Series after 6⅓ giving up 2 hits, 2 walks and 2 earned.
        --Future HoFer Max Scherzer just got pulled in game 7 of the World Series after giving up 11 base runners in 5 innings - which is a lot - and 2 earned runs.

        When they put the team matchups out to the media they released these two players names with the clubs. They were the big matchup...

        Then, in the championship game - the championship game!! - the two hall of famers you advertised to the world...

        --The two players that touch the ball over ten times more than the any other player on their teams.
        --The two players that stand on a literal pedestal in the middle of the field.

        ...get pulled halfway to two-thirds of the way through the game.

        Imagine Tom Brady, LeBron James, Pat Mahomes don't come out after halftime because they're tired.

        Baseball. Needs. Fixed.
        "No matter how great you were once upon a time — the years go by, and men forget,” - W. A. Phelon in Baseball Magazine in 1915. “Ross Barnes, forty years ago, was as great as Cobb or Wagner ever dared to be. Had scores been kept then as now, he would have seemed incomparably marvelous.”

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by jjpm74 View Post

          I think Kershaw will still be a very good pitcher, but given his back issues, I'm inclined to agree that his best days are behind him. If he can stay on the diamond, he will continue to be an All-Star level pitcher, but I will be very surprised if we see him top 225 IP's again as he did several times during his years as the most dominant pitcher in all of MLB.
          Kershaw is on target to be a top 10-15 all time pitcher, even with a Seaver-like decline. He doesn't need to pitch like Verlander or Scherzer or Greinke in his 30s to be an all time great. I don't think a lot of people realize how much better he is than those guys through his current age.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by bluesky5 View Post
            Baseball. Needs. Fixed.
            Not to mention how it's covered by the press.
            "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
            "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
            "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
            "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by willshad View Post

              Kershaw is on target to be a top 10-15 all time pitcher, even with a Seaver-like decline. He doesn't need to pitch like Verlander or Scherzer or Greinke in his 30s to be an all time great. I don't think a lot of people realize how much better he is than those guys through his current age.
              Verlander and Greinke have more volume to their careers, but not by much, and they're both several years older (with more MLB tenure) than Kershaw, who can make up ground quickly given his age. He just needs to stay healthy. Kershaw is already a top 30 all-time pitcher, with room to climb higher, as you say.

              I was disappointed to see Poz rank Kershaw so far below Koufax; he got it exactly backwards.
              "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
              "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
              "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
              "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Chadwick View Post
                Not to mention how it's covered by the press.
                You know I'm right about sabermetrics making baseball less exciting. You can break out of that ideological box. It's ok. Leave the matrix, you know there's a whole world out here past the numbers that enslave you.

                You're a human being man!! For God's sake.
                "No matter how great you were once upon a time — the years go by, and men forget,” - W. A. Phelon in Baseball Magazine in 1915. “Ross Barnes, forty years ago, was as great as Cobb or Wagner ever dared to be. Had scores been kept then as now, he would have seemed incomparably marvelous.”

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Chadwick View Post
                  I was disappointed to see Poz rank Kershaw so far below Koufax; he got it exactly backwards.
                  Maybe he puts a lot of weight on the postseason. I've been reading and hearing for years that Kershaw is the second coming of Koufax, or indeed is even better than Koufax. Koufax has two World Series MVPs; Kershaw (I feel there's enough of a sample size now) has been a disaster in the postseason.

                  They call me Mr. Baseball. Not because of my love for the game; because of all the stitches in my head.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by bluesky5 View Post

                    You know I'm right about sabermetrics making baseball less exciting. You can break out of that ideological box. It's ok. Leave the matrix, you know there's a whole world out here past the numbers that enslave you.

                    You're a human being man!! For God's sake.
                    Talk about making baseball less fun.
                    "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
                    "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
                    "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
                    "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Chadwick View Post
                      Talk about making baseball less fun.
                      We'll run like wild horses as we did when we were young and free. Like prime Puig. Just come on over.
                      "No matter how great you were once upon a time — the years go by, and men forget,” - W. A. Phelon in Baseball Magazine in 1915. “Ross Barnes, forty years ago, was as great as Cobb or Wagner ever dared to be. Had scores been kept then as now, he would have seemed incomparably marvelous.”

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by bluesky5 View Post

                        We'll run like wild horses as we did when we were young and free. Like prime Puig. Just come on over.
                        LMAO

                        And here I just though you were just Manny Being Manny.
                        "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
                        "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
                        "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
                        "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by bluesky5 View Post

                          We'll run like wild horses as we did when we were young and free. Like prime Puig. Just come on over.
                          There is plenty of old timey still going on. Become a Mets fan where an 83 year old man with limited baseball knowledge and his half wit son are the de facto GM. No SABR stuff there!

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by jjpm74 View Post

                            There is plenty of old timey still going on. Become a Mets fan where an 83 year old man with limited baseball knowledge and his half wit son are the de facto GM. No SABR stuff there!
                            The Mets haven't had it worse than any other team historically. Their fans are just very passionate, knowledgeable and the most whiny and annoying because they know they could be rooting for the Giants or Dodgers. The Mets have been to what 5 World Series and lost 3 championship series in 58 years. So every 7 years on average the Mets play for the pennant. Have played for the pennant in every decade of their existence. Boo-hoo
                            "No matter how great you were once upon a time — the years go by, and men forget,” - W. A. Phelon in Baseball Magazine in 1915. “Ross Barnes, forty years ago, was as great as Cobb or Wagner ever dared to be. Had scores been kept then as now, he would have seemed incomparably marvelous.”

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by bluesky5 View Post

                              The Mets haven't had it worse than any other team historically. Their fans are just very passionate, knowledgeable and the most whiny and annoying because they know they could be rooting for the Giants or Dodgers. The Mets have been to what 5 World Series and lost 3 championship series in 58 years. So every 7 years on average the Mets play for the pennant. Have played for the pennant in every decade of their existence. Boo-hoo
                              Oh man this post got me. Terrific.
                              “There can be no higher law in journalism than to tell the truth and to shame the devil.” Walter Lippmann

                              "I don't care if the guy is yellow or black, or if he has stripes like a ******* zebra. I'm the manager of this team and I say he [Robinson] plays." - Leo Durocher

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by jjpm74 View Post

                                There is plenty of old timey still going on. Become a Mets fan where an 83 year old man with limited baseball knowledge and his half wit son are the de facto GM. No SABR stuff there!
                                Be a Mariners fan, where we have absolutely nothing!
                                “There can be no higher law in journalism than to tell the truth and to shame the devil.” Walter Lippmann

                                "I don't care if the guy is yellow or black, or if he has stripes like a ******* zebra. I'm the manager of this team and I say he [Robinson] plays." - Leo Durocher

                                Comment

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