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Playoff Hall of Fame project, 3rd groups in winners and loser's brackets

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  • Playoff Hall of Fame project, 3rd groups in winners and loser's brackets

    Playoff HOF rules

    1. This project will start with 512 major leaguers selected by me. I started with the top 500 in BBref WAR, sorted out the guys who hadn’t retired, and added in major leaguers who made the actual Hall or who made it in some of our shadow hall projects. I added a few other suggestions and changes, and went with those 512

    2. Those 512 were organized randomly into 64 groups of eight. I’d prefer voters to rank them 1 through 8, with each player getting 8 points minus his ranking. I will accept votes that only name the four they think are the best HOF candidates out of the group. In that instance, the four named will be counted as being in fourth place, the other four as being in fifth place. This last provision is meant to help increase participation. I envision each election taking only one week, though in cases of holidays or other issues, I reserve the right to extend that time.

    3. I will go through the entire first round before proceeding to the second, the entire second before proceeding to the third and so forth. In the first round, four from each group will go on into the 1-0 bracket, and four will go on to the 0-1 bracket. That will yield 256 in each half.

    4. For the second round, we will start with the winners bracket. Half, or 128 will go to the group of 2-0 players. The other half will drop into the group of 1-1 players. Then we’ll get to the losers bracket. The winners will also go into the 1-1 bracket, yielding 256 players in that group. The guys in the first group who are 1-0 and then lose in the second round will fill in in four spots in the 32nd group of 1-1 players, then the second group of 1-0 guys to lose to go into the 1-1 pool will go into the 31st group and so forth to avoid as much as possible facing the same guys multiple times. The winners of the first 0-1 group will fill in the remaining four spots in the first 1-1 group, the winners of the second 0-1 group will fill in the remaining four spots of the second 1-1 group and so forth. The losers of the 0-1 group will fall to the 0-2 group.

    5. For the third round, the winners of the 2-0 group are inducted, and the losers of the 0-2 group are eliminated. That’s 64 in each of the inducted and eliminated groups. The losers of the 2-0 group go to the 2-1 group, which will provide 64 of the 192 players in the 2-1 group. The other 128 will come from the winners of the 1-1 group. I will assign the losers from the 2-0 group starting in the 12th group of 2-1 players and then filling in every third slot until they’re filled, again to try and minimize facing too many of the same players faced in earlier rounds. I will do the same thing for the winners of the 0-2 among the 1-2 players

    6. For the fourth round, the winners of the 2-1 group (96 of them) will be inducted, driving the total up to 160 inductees. Similarly, the losers of the 1-2 group are eliminated, meaning 160 of the original 512 are now out. The remaining 192 will be in the 2-2 group. For the 2-2 group, the first 2-1 losers will be in the first 2-2 group, the second 2-1 losers in the second 2-2 group, and so on. For the 1-2 winners, the first group goes to the 24th 2-2 group, the second to the 23rd, and so on.

    7. The 96 losers of the fifth round will be saved as reserves in case we need to replenish the pool of players when we go annual. The 96 winners of the 2-2 round will compete in the sixth round. The 48 winners of that round are inducted to bring us to 208 inductees. The 48 losers of the 3-2 round will compete in the seventh round. The 24 winners of the seventh round are inducted, which will get us 232 MLB inductees.. The 24 losers will be the first players to populate the pool to use against retired players.

    8. I will keep a list of the 12 players who went in as third or fourth place candidates in the seventh round as a reference for my two VCs, one for Japanese players, the other for players in a wide definition of Negro Leagues including any league with large numbers of Negro Leaguers, such as Mexico in the 1940’s, Cuba into the integration years, the Puerto Rican Winter League, the 1937 Dominican League, and so forth

    9. The point of this reference is that the middle of those 12 names should be used as one point of reference for what the floor should be considered to be for the VC selections. I will keep a list of the sixth third place candidates from the sixth fourth placers to aid people in determining where that middle point is. I will mandate that a minimum of five Japanese players must be inducted, and twelve Negro Leaguers. However, I will allow the VC voters to determine how many of the players in each group presented to them are over the floor level represented by the middle of the last 12 inductees list. I will add up the average number of candidates the VC members believe are over that floor for all groups in the category (Negro Leagues or Japan), and if it is higher than my mandated floor, that is how many candidates from that category will be inducted. If not, the mandated floor will be use,

    10. The VCs will have a playoff ranking within the category much like was used for the major leaguers. I will have to adjust the numbers to fit the number of inductees we determine and the number of candidates I offer to the VC.

    11. I won’t worry about ties except where they straddle the line between winners and losers in a group. In that case, the tie goes to the candidate getting the most first place votes, then the most second place, and so on to the last place in the group. If that does not break the tie, there will be a runoff election. If that remains tied, random selection methods such as coin flips or high card will be used to break the tie

    12. A quorum for the major leaguers will be six votes. I suspect I would accept a quorum of four for the VC groups

    13. People may vote on only the major leaguers if they wish. People may choose to only participate in one or both VCs. They may participate in the MLB players and only one VC or they may be part of all three.

    14. The VCs will follow the selection of the first 232 MLB players. I will probably select some players who are not selected by the VCs to be put in the pool, and maybe some others to be placed among the reserves. Until the number of inductees are determined for the VC groups, this decision will have to be put on hold.

    15. One issue is player/managers. It will be up to the individual voter on players to determine how much credit for managing the voter wishes to give the person for managing at the same time he played, with the instruction that if he was a part time player the credit given should be smaller than if he was full time. If he wasn't playing or just getting a few ABs, the managing credit should be minimal that year in the player vote. However, this project is exclusively about players, so if a man managed after his playing days, that managing should not be considered. The essential standrad is how the player (emphasis on the word player, but a player/manager's contributions may be considered as noted above) helps his team win on the field.

    16. I will put the lists I intend to use for the VCs out in advance of the deliberations of those groups to permit discussion of possible additions or omissions on my part. My reason for not doing so now is I expect additional research to take place between now and the time we’re close to getting to the VCs, and I’d prefer to come up with the final list only once, and in this environment, it should come closer to the end of the MLB group than now to allow for the insights from that research to be included.

    17. It seems certain there will be retirements and/or deaths of players between now and the end of the VC deliberations. Once the VCs are done, we will put those players in the pool and select two for each season to have passed since the beginning of this project. Once that is done, we will go annual, electing two per year from the pool.

    18. If we get over 40 players in the pool, we will have a playoff to cut the number to 30. One way we will use to avoid playoffs is to cut players from the pool is to drop players from the pool to the reserves if they fail to make the final election for inductees three times. Once that happens, they will be ineligible to return to the pool for three years. If the pool drops below 12 names, we will have a playoff for the candidates in the reserves to bring the list back up to at least 24 names in the pool. If there is a playoff among the reserves, I will probably cut the number of reserves to no more than 48.

    19. I will maintain lists of the inductees, those in the pool, and those in the reserves, I will also have available a post of the current round and the round to come for the information of participants

    20. This project is open to everyone member of Fever in good standing who has not been barred from similar projects.

    21. You have to rank all the players in the group. One omission from the group would be plugged in at 8th if I cannot get the voter to correct it on his or her own. If there are two or more open spaces, the ballot cannot be counted. If a voter sees fit to put PED guys or gambling-tainted players at the bottom of the list, that's within his or her prerogative.

    22. I will promise to count changes to your ballot if you 1) make the change less than five minutes before I close the balloting (I won't do it before 7 am Saturday without notice of an intent to do otherwise)., and 2) either PM me or post in the thread to notify me of the change. If you do not do the second, I'll try to keep up with changes, but I will not guarantee it. The first condition has no exceptions.

    Last edited by jalbright; 03-08-2020, 02:32 PM.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  • #2
    Here are the second and third rounds of the brackets:
    1-0/01 2-0/01
    Lou Gehrig Lou Gehrig
    Billy Williams Lefty Grove
    Lefty Grove Derek Jeter
    Mickey Mantle Mickey Mantle
    George Davis Kevin Brown
    Derek Jeter Jim Bunning
    Kirby Puckett Gary Carter
    Hughie Jennings Bob Feller
    1-0/02 w1-0/03
    Kevin Brown
    Jim Bunning
    Bob Feller
    Joe Start
    Bobby Bonds w1-0/04
    Pete Browning
    Gary Carter
    Dolf Luque
    1-0/03 2-0/03
    Bucky Walters w1-0/05
    Pie Traynor
    Kevin Appier
    Hardy Richardson
    Johnny Bench w1-0/06
    Arky Vaughan
    Willie Stargell
    Bobby Wallace
    1-0/04 2-0/04
    Pete Alexander w1-0/07
    Wade Boggs
    Hoyt Wilhelm
    George Wright
    Eddie Mathews w1-0/08
    Chipper Jones
    Rod Carew
    Barry Larkin
    1-0/05 2-0/05
    Babe Ruth w1-0/09
    Ted Williams
    Andre Dawson
    Don Sutton
    Joe DiMaggio w1-0/10
    Gaylord Perry
    Luke Appling
    Dwight Gooden
    1-0/06 2-0/06
    Roger Connor w1-0/11
    Harry Heilmann
    Vada Pinson
    Nomar Garciaparra
    Randy Johnson w1-0/12
    Duke Snider
    Carl Hubbell
    Enos Slaughter
    1-0/07 2-0/07
    George Brett w1-0/13
    Joe Gordon
    Ted Lyons
    Tim Raines
    Hank Aaron w1-0/14
    Jackie Robinson
    David Ortiz
    Johm Montgomery Ward
    1-0/08 2-0/08
    Barry Bonds w1-0/15
    Carlton Fisk
    Phil Niekro
    Reggie Smith
    Bob Johnson w1-0/16
    Walter Johnson
    Jeff Kent
    Vic Willis
    1-0/09 2-0/09
    Lou Brock w1-0/17
    Monte Irvin
    Eddie Murray
    Al Spalding
    Nolan Ryan w1-0/18
    Chase Utley
    Lou Whitaker
    Cy Young
    1-0/10 2-0/10
    Ken Boyer w1-0/19
    Cesar Cedeno
    Eddie Collins
    Rube Waddell
    Ty Cobb w1-0/20
    Sandy Koufax
    Rafael Palmiero
    Red Ruffing
    1-0/11 2-0/11
    Dick Allen w1-0/21
    Lance Berkman
    Paul Molitor
    Jim O'Rourke
    King Kelly w1-0/22
    Chuck Klein
    Cal Ripken Jr
    Jimmy Wynn
    1-0/12 2-0/12
    Sam Crawford w1-0/23
    Roger Clemens
    Dave Stieb
    Wally Schang
    Burleigh Grimes w1-0/24
    Greg Maddux
    Juan Marichal
    Sam Rice
    1-0/13 2-0/13
    Joe Cronin w1-0/25
    Joe McGinnity
    Luis Tiant Jr
    Miguel Tejada
    Dizzy Dean w1-0/26
    Elmer Flick
    Ralph Kiner
    Alex Rodriguez
    1-0/14 2-0/14
    Jesse Burkett w1-0/27
    Bob Lemon
    Jim Palmer
    Curt Schilling
    Ross Barnes w1-0/28
    Jimmie Foxx
    Rickey Henderson
    Reggie Jackson
    1-0/15 2-0/15
    Babe Adams w1-0/29
    Albert Belle
    Heinie Groh
    Mark McGwire
    Craig Biggio w1-0/30
    Roberto Clemente
    Charlie Gehringer
    Joe Torre
    1-0/16 2-0/16
    Roberto Alomar w1-0/31
    Frank Baker
    Joe Morgan
    Al Simmons
    David Cone w1-0/32
    Johnny Pesky
    Old Hoss Radbourn
    Robin Yount
    1-0/17 1.1/01
    Lou Boudreau Charlie Bennett
    Don Drysdale Dolph Camili
    Tim Hudson Addie Joss
    Sherry Magee Ernie Lombardi
    Jim Edmonds l1-0/32
    Bob Gibson
    Fergie Jenkins
    Nap LaJoie
    1-0/18 1.1/02
    Kenny Lofton Chuck Finley
    Carl Mays Harry Hooper
    Al Rosen Jim Kaat
    Dazzy Vance Roger Maris
    Dan Brouthers l1-0/31
    Manny Ramirez
    Frank Thomas
    Paul Waner
    1-0/19 1.1/03
    John Clarkson w0-1/03
    Harmon Killebrew
    Pedro Martinez
    Honus Wagner
    Wally Berger l1-0/30
    Whitey Ford
    Edd Roush
    Ed Walsh
    1-0/20 1.1/04
    Edgar Martinez w0-1/04
    Don Mattingly
    Frank Viola
    Hack Wilson
    Roy Campanella l1-0/29
    Larry Doby
    Willie Keeler
    Rick Reuschel
    1-0/21 1.1/05
    Mordecai Brown w0-1/05
    Frank Robinson
    Ivan Rodriguez
    Jim Sundberg
    Bill Dickey l1-0/28
    Frankie Frisch
    Ron Santo
    Deacon White
    1-0/22 1.1/06
    Orlando Cepeda w0-1/06
    Wes Ferrell
    Amos Otis
    Carlos Zambrano
    Andruw Jones l1-0/27
    Tony Mullane
    Amos Rusie
    Alan Trammell
    1-0/23 1.1/07
    Earl Averill w0-1/07
    Jose Cruz
    Dwight Evans
    Mel Ott
    Richie Ashburn l1-0/26
    Ed Delahanty
    Bid McPhee
    Andy Pettite
    1-0/24 1.1/08
    Tony Gwynn w0-1/08
    Pee Wee Reese
    Ted Simmons
    George Sisler
    Steve Carlton l1-0/25
    Joe Medwick
    Kid Nichols
    Ozzie Smith
    1-0/25 1.1/09
    Bert Blyleven w0-1/09
    Jim Fregosi
    Charlie Keller
    Dave Winfield
    Jeff Bagwell l1-0/24
    Rogers Hornsby
    Thurman Munson
    Hal Newhouser
    1-0/26 1.1/10
    Mickey Cochrane w0-1/10
    Tim Keefe
    Eddie Plank
    Carl Yastrzemski
    Fred Clarke l1-0/23
    Stan Coveleski
    John Smoltz
    Jim Thome
    1-0/27 1.1/11
    Billy Hamilton w0-1/11
    Paul Hines
    Tony Phillips
    Jim Rice
    Yogi Berra l1-0/22
    Willie Davis
    Minnie Minoso
    Hippo Vaughn
    1-0/28 1.1/12
    Tom Glavine w0-1/12
    Willie Mays
    Stan Musial
    Ryne Sandberg
    Bill Dahlen l1-0/21
    Todd Helton
    Joe Jackson
    Mike Piazza
    1-0/29 1.1/13
    Mariano Rivera w0-1/13
    Robin Roberts
    Tom Seaver
    Tris Speaker
    Dennis Eckersley l1-0/20
    Bobby Grich
    Gary Sheffield
    Bill Terry
    1-0/30 1.1/14
    Ernie Banks w0-1/14
    Buck Ewing
    Ken Griffey Jr
    Warren Spahn
    Cap Anson l1-0/19
    Al Kaline
    Scott Rolen
    Joe Sewell
    1-0/31 w0-1/15
    Gabby Hartnett
    Keith Hernandez
    Willie McCovey
    Johnny Mize
    Carlos Beltran l1-0/18
    Adrian Beltre
    Red Faber
    Bernie Williams
    1-0/32 1.1/16
    Joe Mauer w0-1/16
    Brooks Robinson
    Pete Rose
    Mike Schmidt
    Hank Greenberg l1-0/17
    Roy Halladay
    Christy Mathewson
    Mike Mussina
    0-1/01 1.1/17
    Addie Joss w0-1/17
    Ernie Lombardi
    Fred Tenney
    Charlie Bennett
    Charlie Buffinton l1-0/16
    Dolph Camilli
    Silver King
    Mark Belanger
    0-1/02 1.1/18
    Jim Kaat w0-1/18
    Chuck Finley
    Doug DeCinces
    Charley Jones
    Harry Hooper l0*1/15
    Roger Maris
    Bill Nicholson
    Gene Tenace
    0-1/03 1.1/19
    Jack Chesbro w0-1/19
    Jason Kendall
    Dutch (E) Leonard
    Nap Rucker
    Sammy Sosa l1-0/14
    Max Carey
    Cupid Childs
    Tony Fernandez
    0-1/04 1.1/20
    Chief Bender w0-1/20
    Jack Morris
    Jorge Posada
    Sam Thompson
    Billy Herman l0-1/13
    Harold Baines
    Gil McDougald
    Roy White
    0-1/05 1.1/21
    Bret Saberhagen w0-1/21
    Clark Griffith
    Lave Cross
    Cliff Lee
    Rocky Colavito l1-0/12
    Noodles Hahn
    George Foster
    Doc White
    0-1/06 1.1/22
    Bert Campaneris w0-1/22
    Mark Buehrle
    Torii Hunter
    Larry Gardner
    Tony Oliva l0-1/11
    Buddy Bell
    John McGraw
    Dizzy Trout
    0-1/07 1.1/23
    John Candelaria w0-1/23
    Tony Lazzeri
    Allie Reynolds
    Vern Stephens
    Curt Flood l0-1/10
    Brian Giles
    Darryl Strawberry
    Bob Welch
    0-1/08 1.1/24
    Roger Bresnahan w0-1/24
    Norm Cash
    Travis Jackson
    Ezra Sutton
    Brett Butler l0-1/09
    Will Clark
    Eppa Rixey
    Mike Smith
    0-1/09 1.1/25
    Rick Ferrell w0-1/25
    Ned Garver
    Luis Gonzalez
    Schoolgoy Rowe
    Tommy Bond l1-0/08
    Gary Gaetti
    Sad Sam Jones
    Ken Singleton
    0-1/10 1.1/26
    Larry Jackson w0-1/26
    George Kell
    Davey Lopes
    Del Pratt
    Carlos Delgado l0-1/07
    Joe Kelley
    Buddy Myer
    Rusty Staub
    0-1/11 1.1/27
    Luis Aparicio w0-1/27
    Jerry Koosman
    Harry Stovey
    Joe Tinker
    Hugh Duffy l1-0/06
    Ron Guidry
    Jimmy Rollins
    Dixie Walker
    0-1/12 1.1/28
    Ben Chapman w0-1/28
    Eddie Ciccotte
    Catfish Hunter
    Rabbit Maranville
    Mark Grace l1-0/05
    Jamie Moyer
    Jimmy Sheckard
    Curt Simmons
    0-1/13 1.1/29
    Gavvy Cravath w0-1/29
    Ed Konetchy
    George Mullin
    Cy Seymour
    Art Fletcher l1-0/04
    Chuck Knoblauch
    Graig Nettles
    Ross Youngs
    0-1/14 1.1/30
    Jose Canseco w0-1/30
    Larry French
    Sam Leever
    Mickey Welch
    Bob Caruthers l1-0/03
    Bobby Doerr
    Jack Quinn
    Jack Stivetts
    0-1/15 1.1/31
    Kiki Cuyler w0-1/31
    Tommy Leach
    Claude Osteen
    Bobby Veach
    Mel Harder Bobby Bonds
    Trevor Hoffman Pete Browning
    Dave Parker Dolf Luque
    Lip Pike Joe Start
    0-1/16 1.1/32
    Gil Hodges w0-1/32
    Rube Marquard
    Billy Pierce
    Willie Randolph
    Brian Downing George Davis
    Fred Dunlap Hughie Jennings
    Toby Harrah Kirby Puckett
    Heinie Manush Billy Williams
    0-1/17 0-2/01
    Johnny Evers Mark Belanger
    Waite Hoyt Charlie Buffinton
    Matt Williams Silver King
    Wilbur Wood Fred Tenney
    Chet Lemon Doug DeCinces
    Tommy McCarthy Charley Jones
    George Uhle Bill Nicholson
    Ken Williams Gene Tenace
    0-1/18 0-2/02
    Rollie Fingers l0-1/03
    Cal McVey
    Al Orth
    Kenny Rogers
    Jake Beckley l0-1/04
    John Olerud
    Al Oliver
    Javier Valsquez
    0-1/19 0-2/03
    Nellie Fox l0-1/05
    Steve Garvey
    Jack Glasscock
    Johan Santana
    Bill Donovan l0-1/06
    Jesse Haines
    Fernando Valenzuela
    Jim Whitney
    0-1/20 0-2/04
    Mike Cameron l0-1/07
    Dave Concepcion
    John Hiller
    Eddie Rommel
    Dennis Martinez l0-1/08
    Claude Passeau
    Roger Peckinpaugh
    Phil Rizzuto
    0-1/21 0-2/05
    Jack Fournier l0-1/09
    Brad Radke
    Steve Rogers
    Devon White
    Al Dark l0-1/10
    Bob Elliott
    Orlando Hernandez
    Jim McCormick
    0-1/22 0-2/06
    Murry Dickson l0-1/11
    George Kelly
    Ray Schalk
    Bob Shawkey
    Mike Griffin l0-1/12
    Herb Pennock
    George Van Haltren
    Omar Vizquel
    0-1/23 0-2/07
    Felipe Alou l0-1/13
    Red Lucas
    Dan Quisenberry
    Lee Smith
    Jack Clark l0-1/14
    Earle Combs
    Fred Lindstrom
    Red Schoendienst
    0-1/24 0-2/08
    Sal Bando l0-1/15
    John Franco
    Goose Gossage
    Stan Hack
    Ted Breitenstein l0-1/16
    Darrell Evans
    Tony Perez
    Andy Van Slyke
    0-1/25 0-2/09
    Chick Hafey l0-1/17
    Bobo Newsom
    Darrell Porter
    Maury Wills
    Julio Franco l0-1/18
    Roy Oswalt
    Bruce Sutter
    Willie Wilson
    0-1/26 0-2/10
    Ellis Burks l0-1/19
    Jimmy Collins
    Larry Walker
    David Wells
    Frank Chance l0-1/20
    Bobby Mathews
    Fred McGriff
    Ned Williamson
    0-1/27 0-2/11
    Harry Brecheen l0-1/21
    Mark Langston
    Bill Mazeroski
    Roy Thomas
    Jimmy Ryan l0-1/22
    Mel Stottlemyre
    Jesse Tannehill
    Billy Wagner
    0-1/28 0-2/12
    Johnny Damon l0-1/23
    Dom DiMaggio
    Vladimir Guerrero
    Robin Ventura
    Bobby Abreu l0-1/24
    Tommy Bridges
    Pud Galvin
    Don Newcombe
    0-1/29 0-2/13
    Vida Blue l0-1/25
    Goose Goslin
    Jack Powell
    Mike Tiernan
    Bill Frehan l0-1/26
    Orel Hershiser
    Freddy Lynn
    Frank Tanana
    0-1/30 0-2/14
    Dave Bancroft l0-1/27
    George Gore
    Dale Murphy
    Jim Perry
    Jim Bottomley l0-1/28
    Joe Carter
    Mickey Lolich
    Sam McDowell
    0-1/31 0-2/15
    Joe Judge l0-1/29
    Urban Shocker
    Lloyd Waner
    Early Wynn
    Larry Doyle l0-1/30
    Jason Giambi
    Babe Herman
    Tommy John
    0-1/32 0-2/16
    Tom Candiotti l0-1/31
    Wilbur Cooper
    Lenny Dykstra
    Juan Gonzalez
    Ron Cey l0-1/32
    Milt Pappas
    Lon Warneke
    Zack Wheat
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.


    • #3
      First is the winner's bracket ballot:
      Bucky Walters
      Pie Traynor
      Kevin Appier
      Hardy Richardson
      Johnny Bench
      Arky Vaughan
      Willie Stargell
      Bobby Wallacx


      And now the loser's bracket ballot:
      Jack Chesbro
      Jason Kendall
      Dutch (E) Leonard
      Nap Rucker
      Sammy Sosa
      Max Carey
      Cupid Childs
      Tony Fernandez
      Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
      Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
      A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.


      • #4
        My winner's bracket ballot
        1. Bench
        2. A Vaughan
        3. Wallace
        4. Stargell
        5. Walters
        6. Richardson
        7. Appier
        8, Traynor

        My loser's bracket ballot
        1. Carey
        2/ Childs
        3/ Rucker
        4. Kendall
        5. Chesbro
        6. Dutch (E) Leonard
        7. T Fernandez
        8. Sosa
        Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
        Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
        A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.


        • #5

          Johnny Bench
          Willie Stargell
          Arky Vaughan
          Bobby Wallace
          Pie Traynor
          ----HOF Line----
          Bucky Walters
          Kevin Appier
          Hardy Richardson


          Sammy Sosa
          Max Carey
          ----HOF Line----
          Jason Kendall
          Cupid Childs
          Tony Fernandez
          Dutch (E) Leonard
          Jack Chesbro
          Nap Rucker


          • #6
            1. Bench
            2. Stargell
            3. Walters
            4. Traynor
            5. Vaughan
            6. Richardson
            7. Wallace
            8. Appier

            1. Sosa
            2. Carey
            3. Fernandez
            4. Leonard
            5. Rucker
            6. Chesbro
            7. Childs
            8. Kendall


            • #7
              1. Bench
              2. Vaughan
              3. Wallace
              4. Appier
              5. Stargell
              6. Walters
              7. Traynor
              8. Ricardson

              1. Carey
              2. Sosa
              3. Childs
              4. Rucker
              5. Kendall
              6. Fernandez
              7. Chesbro
              8. Leonard
              1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

              1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

              1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015

              The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
              The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History


              • #8
                Whatever ends up happening with Sosa, it is nice to see him polling #1 or #2 in 3 out of the 4 lists early on.


                • #9

                  1. Johnny Bench
                  2. Arky Vaughan
                  3. Willie Stargell
                  4. Bobby Wallace
                  5. Kevin Appier
                  6. Bucky Walters
                  7. Hardy Richardson
                  8. Pie Traynor


                  1. Sammy Sosa
                  2. Nap Rucker
                  3. Max Carey
                  4. Cupid Childs
                  5. Dutch Leonard
                  6. Tony Fernandez
                  7. Jason Kendall
                  8. Jack Chesbro


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by jjpm74 View Post
                    Whatever ends up happening with Sosa, it is nice to see him polling #1 or #2 in 3 out of the 4 lists early on.
                    It's a surreal situation seeing this round. Sosa should be advancing to the 2-0 round in the Winners bracket, given the competition here.


                    • #11

                      1. Johnny Bench
                      2. Arky Vaughan
                      3. Willie Stargell
                      4. Bobby Wallace
                      5. Hardy Richardson
                      6. Bucky Walters
                      7. Kevin Appier
                      8. Pie Traynor


                      1. Max Carey
                      2. Sammy Sosa
                      3. Cupid Childs
                      4. Tony Fernandez
                      5. Nap Rucker
                      6. Jason Kendall
                      7. Jack Chesbro
                      8. Dutch Leonard


                      • #12
                        1. Johnny Bench
                        2. Arky Vaughan
                        3. Bobby Wallace
                        4. Willie Stargell
                        5. Kevin Appier
                        6. Bucky Walters
                        7. Pie Traynor
                        8. Hardy Richardson

                        1. Sammy Sosa
                        2. Max Carey
                        3. Cupid Childs
                        4. Nap Rucker
                        5. Tony Fernandez
                        6. Jason Kendall
                        7. Dutch Leonard
                        8. Jack Chesbro
                        "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
                        "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
                        "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
                        "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe


                        • #13
                          1. Johnny Bench
                          2. Arky Vaughan
                          3. Willie Stargell
                          4. Bobby Wallace
                          5. Bucky Walters
                          6. Pie Traynor
                          7. Hardy Richardson
                          ----- HOF -----
                          8. Kevin Appier

                          1. Sammy Sosa
                          2. Max Carey
                          ----- HOF -----
                          3. Cupid Childs
                          4. Jason Kendall
                          5. Tony Fernandez
                          6. Dutch Leonard
                          7. Jack Chesbro
                          8. Nap Rucker


                          • #14
                            Johnny Bench
                            Arky Vaughan
                            Bobby Wallace
                            Willie Stargell
                            Kevin Appier
                            Hardy Richardson
                            Bucky Walters
                            Pie Traynor

                            Max Carey
                            Cupid Childs
                            Sammy Sosa
                            Nap Rucker
                            Dutch Leonard
                            Jason Kendall
                            Tony Fernandez - RIP
                            Jack Chesbro
                            Jacquelyn Eva Marchand (1983-2017)


                            • #15

                              1. Bench
                              2. Vaughn
                              3. Stargell
                              4. Wallace, barely ahead of
                              5. Walters- his good hitting puts him just ahead of
                              6. Appier- another good pitcher
                              7. Traynor- still a very good player
                              8. Richardson

                              A good group overall- lots of close calls.


                              1. Sosa- AAAHHH!!! How I loathe writing that!- barely ahead of
                              2. Carey- sort of Lou Brock with less power, better glove
                              3. Rucker
                              4. Childs
                              5. Kendall- handicapped by a brutal ankle injury, but also spent the first half of his career almost unable to throw anybody out
                              6. Fernandez
                              7. Leonard
                              8. Chesbro

                              Very difficult to differentiate between 3 and 8 for me.
                              Last edited by BigRon; 03-04-2020, 07:16 PM.


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