Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Playoff Hall of Fame project, fifteenth pair of 1-1 players

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Playoff Hall of Fame project, fifteenth pair of 1-1 players

    Playoff HOF rules

    1. This project will start with 512 major leaguers selected by me. I started with the top 500 in BBref WAR, sorted out the guys who hadn’t retired, and added in major leaguers who made the actual Hall or who made it in some of our shadow hall projects. I added a few other suggestions and changes, and went with those 512

    2. Those 512 were organized randomly into 64 groups of eight. I’d prefer voters to rank them 1 through 8, with each player getting 8 points minus his ranking. I will accept votes that only name the four they think are the best HOF candidates out of the group. In that instance, the four named will be counted as being in fourth place, the other four as being in fifth place. This last provision is meant to help increase participation. I envision each election taking only one week, though in cases of holidays or other issues, I reserve the right to extend that time.

    3. I will go through the entire first round before proceeding to the second, the entire second before proceeding to the third and so forth. In the first round, four from each group will go on into the 1-0 bracket, and four will go on to the 0-1 bracket. That will yield 256 in each half.

    4. For the second round, we will start with the winners bracket. Half, or 128 will go to the group of 2-0 players. The other half will drop into the group of 1-1 players. We will pair a loser's bracket group with the winner's bracket group. This pattern of pairing winners and loser's groups will continue for the rest of the project. If there are groups that have the same numbers of wins and losses, I will do two of these groups at a time in an election. The winners will also go into the 1-1 bracket, yielding 256 players in that group. The guys in the first group who are 1-0 and then lose in the second round will fill in in four spots in the 32nd group of 1-1 players, then the second group of 1-0 guys to lose to go into the 1-1 pool will go into the 31st group and so forth to avoid as much as possible facing the same guys multiple times. The winners of the first 0-1 group will fill in the remaining four spots in the first 1-1 group, the winners of the second 0-1 group will fill in the remaining four spots of the second 1-1 group and so forth. The losers of the 0-1 group will fall to the 0-2 group.

    5. For the third round, the winners of the 2-0 group are inducted, and the losers of the 0-2 group are eliminated. That’s 64 in each of the inducted and eliminated groups. The losers of the 2-0 group go to the 2-1 group, which will provide 64 of the 192 players in the 2-1 group. The other 128 will come from the winners of the 1-1 group. I will assign the losers from the 2-0 group starting in the 12th group of 2-1 players and then filling in every third slot until they’re filled, again to try and minimize facing too many of the same players faced in earlier rounds. I will do the same thing for the winners of the 0-2 among the 1-2 players

    6. For the fourth round, the winners of the 2-1 group (96 of them) will be inducted, driving the total up to 160 inductees. Similarly, the losers of the 1-2 group are eliminated, meaning 160 of the original 512 are now out. The remaining 192 will be in the 2-2 group. These players will be grouped in a pattern which will be used in subsequent rounds for the original 512. As you know, the four in a given election group moving to another round have moved all four winners together, and all four losers together. I do not wish to change that each group has either every spot from 5 to 8 if they lost the previous round and 1 though 4 if they won it. However, those four players will no longer come from just one group but four. To illustrate how this will work, I will cover assignments from the fourth round results. Obviously, spots 1 through 4 in the 2-1 group will be inducted, and spots 5 through 8 in the 1-2 group will be eliminated. For the rest, I will first talk about the 5 through 8 finishers in the 2-1 group. In the first such group of 4,

    #5 goes to group A in the 2-2 round
    #6 goes to group B in the 2-2 round
    #7 goes to group C in the 2-2 round and
    #8 goes to group D in the 2-2 round.

    Then for the second group, #6 goes to group A, #7 to B, #8 to C, and #5 to D.
    For the third group,, #7 goes to A, #8 to B, #5 to C and #6 to D
    Finally, for the fourth group, #8 goes to A, #5 to B, #6 to C and #7 to D.

    For the players finishing ! through 4 in the 1-2 group. the ones go where the fives in the above example went, the twos where the sixes went, the threes where the sevens went and the fours where the eights went.

    The purpose of this is to try and limit the impact of being in a tough group. Ted Williams was paired with Babe Ruth three times. It wasn't too bad for Ted to finish #2 three times, but if you finished third or fourth in that group, you had no shot of moving up, only of moving down. It hasn't been too important so far due to the triple elimination format. I don't see us eliminating anybody who isn't at best a borderline candidate in the eyes of the whole group in the fourth round. However, in round five and beyond, it's pretty much win and you're in, lose and you're out. That scenario would give added weight to a tough draw. I hope spreading groups out this way will reduce the likelihood of a truly bad draw.

    For the 2-2 group, the first four sets of 2-1 losers will populate the first four 2-2 groups, the second 2-1 four sets of losers in the second set of four 2-2 groups, and so on. For the 1-2 winners, the first group goes to the 21st through the 24th 2-2 groups, the next four to the 17th through 20th 2-2 groups, and so on.

    7. The 96 losers of the fifth round will be saved as reserves in case we need to replenish the pool of players when we go annual. The 96 winners of the 2-2 round will compete in the sixth round. The 48 winners of that round are inducted to bring us to 208 inductees. The 48 losers of the 3-2 round will compete in the seventh round. The 24 winners of the seventh round are inducted, which will get us 232 MLB inductees.. The 24 losers will be the first players to populate the pool to use against retired players.

    8. I will keep a list of the 12 players who went in as third or fourth place candidates in the seventh round as a reference for my two VCs, one for Japanese players, the other for players in a wide definition of Negro Leagues including any league with large numbers of Negro Leaguers, such as Mexico in the 1940’s, Cuba into the integration years, the Puerto Rican Winter League, the 1937 Dominican League, and so forth

    9. The point of this reference is that the middle of those 12 names should be used as one point of reference for what the floor should be considered to be for the VC selections. I will keep a list of the sixth third place candidates from the sixth fourth placers to aid people in determining where that middle point is. I will mandate that a minimum of five Japanese players must be inducted, and twelve Negro Leaguers. However, I will allow the VC voters to determine how many of the players in each group presented to them are over the floor level represented by the middle of the last 12 inductees list. I will add up the average number of candidates the VC members believe are over that floor for all groups in the category (Negro Leagues or Japan), and if it is higher than my mandated floor, that is how many candidates from that category will be inducted. If not, the mandated floor will be use,

    10. The VCs will have a playoff ranking within the category much like was used for the major leaguers. I will have to adjust the numbers to fit the number of inductees we determine and the number of candidates I offer to the VC.

    11. I won’t worry about ties except where they straddle the line between winners and losers in a group. In that case, the tie goes to the candidate rated higher by the most voters. After that, the next tie breaker is getting the most first place votes, then the most second place, and so on to the last place in the group. If that does not break the tie, there will be a runoff election. If that remains tied, random selection methods such as coin flips or high card will be used to break the tie

    12. A quorum for the major leaguers will be six votes. I suspect I would accept a quorum of four for the VC groups

    13. People may vote on only the major leaguers if they wish. People may choose to only participate in one or both VCs. They may participate in the MLB players and only one VC or they may be part of all three.

    14. The VCs will follow the selection of the first 232 MLB players. I will probably select some players who are not selected by the VCs to be put in the pool, and maybe some others to be placed among the reserves. Until the number of inductees are determined for the VC groups, this decision will have to be put on hold.

    15. One issue is player/managers. It will be up to the individual voter on players to determine how much credit for managing the voter wishes to give the person for managing at the same time he played, with the instruction that if he was a part time player the credit given should be smaller than if he was full time. If he wasn't playing or just getting a few ABs, the managing credit should be minimal that year in the player vote. However, this project is exclusively about players, so if a man managed after his playing days, that managing should not be considered. The essential standrad is how the player (emphasis on the word player, but a player/manager's contributions may be considered as noted above) helps his team win on the field.

    16. I will put the lists I intend to use for the VCs out in advance of the deliberations of those groups to permit discussion of possible additions or omissions on my part. My reason for not doing so now is I expect additional research to take place between now and the time we’re close to getting to the VCs, and I’d prefer to come up with the final list only once, and in this environment, it should come closer to the end of the MLB group than now to allow for the insights from that research to be included. I will note I will expect at least as many inductees as in the actual HOF or the Single Ballot HOF. For the 19th century, I think I should split them into pre 60' 6" distance pitchers and pre-1900 position players. That will be 7 pitchers and 18 position players at a minimum. For the Negro Leagues, I will have at least 31 players, and that minimum may rise if Doby, Irvin, Minoso and Campanella fail to make it among the major leaguers. For NPB players, I will count eight and allow a ninth if Ichiro is not elected with the MLB guys.

    17. It seems certain there will be retirements and/or deaths of players between now and the end of the VC deliberations. Once the VCs are done, we will put those players in the pool and select two for each season to have passed since the beginning of this project. Once that is done, we will go annual, electing two per year from the pool.

    18. If we get over 40 players in the pool, we will have a playoff to cut the number to 30. One way we will use to avoid playoffs is to cut players from the pool is to drop players from the pool to the reserves if they fail to make the final election for inductees three times. Once that happens, they will be ineligible to return to the pool for three years. If the pool drops below 12 names, we will have a playoff for the candidates in the reserves to bring the list back up to at least 24 names in the pool. If there is a playoff among the reserves, I will probably cut the number of reserves to no more than 48.

    19. I will maintain lists of the inductees, those in the pool, and those in the reserves, I will also have available a post of the current round and the round to come for the information of participants

    20. This project is open to everyone member of Fever in good standing who has not been barred from similar projects.

    21. You have to rank all the players in the group. One omission from the group would be plugged in at 8th if I cannot get the voter to correct it on his or her own. If there are two or more open spaces, the ballot cannot be counted. If a voter sees fit to put PED guys or gambling-tainted players at the bottom of the list, that's within his or her prerogative.

    22. I will promise to count changes to your ballot if you 1) make the change less than five minutes before I close the balloting (I won't do it before 7 am Saturday without notice of an intent to do otherwise)., and 2) either PM me or post in the thread to notify me of the change. If you do not do the second, I'll try to keep up with changes, but I will not guarantee it. The first condition has no exceptions.
    Last edited by jalbright; 05-08-2021, 11:46 AM.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  • #2
    Here are the third and fourth rounds of the brackets:
    ....
    2-0/01 …... 2.1 /01
    Lou Gehrig …... Lou Boudreau
    Lefty Grove …... Fergie Jenkins
    Derek Jeter …... Manny Ramirez
    Mickey Mantle …... Paul Waner
    Kevin Brown …... Roy Halladay
    Jim Bunning …... Joe Mauer
    Gary Carter …... Brooks Robinson
    Bob Feller …... Pete Rose
    …...
    2-0/02 …... 2.1/02
    Johnny Bench …... Red Faber
    Willie Stargell …... Gabby Hartnett
    Arky Vaughan …... Keith Hernandez
    Bobby Wallace …... Bernie Williams
    Pete Alexander …... Larry Doby
    Wade Boggs .. Whitey Ford
    Chipper Jones …... Willie Keeler
    Eddie Mathews …... Edgar Martinez
    …...
    2-0/03 …... 2.1/03
    Joe DiMaggio …... Ernie Banks
    Gaylord Perry …... Max Carey
    Babe Ruth …... Buck Ewing
    Ted Williams …... Scott Rolen
    Roger Connor …... Dennis Eckersley
    Carl Hubbell …... Bobby Grich
    Randy Johnson …... Gary Sheffield
    Duke Snider …... Bill Terry
    …...
    2-0/04 …... 2.1/04
    Hank Aaron …... Wes Ferrell
    George Brett …... Andruw Jones
    Tim Raines …... Amos Rusie
    Jackie Robinson …... Alan Trammell
    Barry Bonds …... Bill Dahlen
    Carlton Fisk …... Todd Helton
    Walter Johnson …... Joe Jackson
    Phil Niekro …... Ryne Sandberg
    …...
    2-0/05 …... 2.1/05
    Eddie Murray …... Buddy Bell
    Nolan Ryan …... Bert Campaneris
    Lou Whitaker …... Willie Davis
    Cy Young …... Tony Oliva
    Ty Cobb …... Richie Ashburn
    Eddie Collins …... Dwight Evans
    Sandy Koufax …... Tony Gwynn
    Rube Waddell …... Ozzie Smith
    …...
    2-0/06 …... 2.1/06
    Dick Allen …... Fred Clarke
    King Kelly …... Mickey Cochrane
    Paul Molitor …... Stan Coveleski
    Cal Ripken, Jr. …... John Smoltz
    Roger Clemens …... Will Clark
    Sam Crawford …... Charlie Keller
    Greg Maddux …... Thurman Munson
    Juan Marichal …... Dave Winfield
    …...
    2-0/07 …... 2.1/07
    Joe Cronin …... Bert Blyleven
    Joe McGinnity …... Tim Keefe
    Alex Rodriguez …... Hal Newhouser
    Luis Tiant Jr. …... Jim Thome
    Jimmie Foxx …... Joe Medwick
    Rickey Henderson …... Pee Wee Reese
    Reggie Jackson …... Ted Simmons
    Curt Schilling …... George Sisler
    …...
    2-0/08 …... 2.1/08
    Craig Biggio …... Earl Averill
    Roberto Clemente …... Joe Kelley
    Charlie Gehringer …... Bid McPhee
    Mark McGwire …... Andy Pettite
    Roberto Alomar …... Tom Glavine
    Joe Morgan …... Billy Hamilton
    Al Simmons …... Paul Hines
    Robin Yount …... Minnie Minoso
    …...
    2-0/09 …... 2.1/09
    Lou Boudreau …... Ron Guidry
    Bob Gibson …... Tony Mullane
    Fergie Jenkins …... Harry Stovey
    Nap LaJoie …... Joe Tinker
    Dan Brouthers …... Mordecai Brown
    Manny Ramirez …... Eddie Ciccotte
    Frank Thomas …... Ron Santo
    Paul Waner …... Deacon White
    …...
    2-0/10 …... 2.1/10
    Whitey Ford …... Cap Anson
    Pedro Martinez …... Al Kaline
    Honus Wagner …... Mariano Rivers
    Ed Walsh …... Robin Roberts
    Roy Campanella …... Don Mattingly
    Larry Doby …... Graig Nettles
    Willie Keeler …... Rick Reuschel
    Edgar Martinez …... Frank Viola
    …...
    2-0/11 …... 2.1/11
    Bill Dickey …... Bob Caruthers
    Frankie Frisch …... John Clarkson
    Frank Robinson …... Bobby Doerr
    Ivan Rodriguez …... Harmon Killebrew
    Wes Ferrell …... Carlos Beltran
    Andruw Jones …... Adrian Beltre
    Amos Rusie …... Willie McCovey
    Alan Trammell …... Mike Mussina
    …...
    2-0/12 …... 2.1/12
    Richie Ashburn …... Kiki Cuyler
    Ed Delahanty …... Kenny Lofton
    Dwight Evans …... Dazzy Vance
    Mel Ott …... Bobby Veach
    Steve Carlton …... Don Drysdale
    Tony Gwynn …... Jim Edmonds
    Kid Nichols …... Sherry Magee
    Ozzie Smith …... Willi Randolph
    …...
    2-0/13 …... 2.1/13
    Jeff Bagwell …... Kevin Brown
    Bert Blyleven …... Jim Bunning
    Rogers Hornsby …... Bob Feller
    Hal Newhouser …... Derek Jeter
    Tim Keefe …... Frank Baker
    Eddie Plank …... David Cone
    Jim Thome …... Johnny Evers
    Carl Yastrzemski …... Old Hoss Radbourn
    …...
    2-0/14 …... 2.1/14
    Yogi Berra …... Babe Adams
    Billy Hamilton …... Jake Beckley
    Paul Hines …... John Olerud
    Minnie Minoso …... Joe Torre
    Tom Glavine …... Chipper Jones
    Willie Mays …... Willie Stargell
    Stan Musial …... Arky Vaughn
    Mike Piazza …... Bobby Wallace
    …...
    2-0/15 …... 2.1/15
    Mariano Rivera …... Jesse Burkett
    Robin Roberts …... Jack Glasscock
    Tom Seaver …... Jim Palmer
    Tris Speaker …... Johan Santana
    Cap Anson …... Dizzy Dean
    Ken Griffey, Jr. …... Elmer Flick
    Al Kaline …... Ralph Kiner
    Warren Spahn …... Phil Rizzuto
    …...
    2-0/16 …... 2.1/16
    Carlos Beltan …... Roger Connor
    Adrian Beltre …... Carl Hubbell
    Willie McCovey …... Gaylord Perry
    Johnny Mize …... Duke Snider
    Hank Greenberg …... Burleigh Grimes
    Christy Mathewson …... Jim McCormick
    Mike Mussina …... Sam Rice
    Mike Schmidt …... Dave Steib
    …...
    1.1/01 …... 2.1/17
    Charlie Bennett …... Lance Berkman
    Dolph Camili …... Chuck Klein
    Addie Joss …... Jim O'Rourke
    Ernie Lombardi …... Jimmy Wynn
    Roy Halladay …... Carlton Fisk
    Joe Mauer …... Phil Niekro
    Brooks Robinson …... Tim Raines
    Pete Rose …... Jackie Robinson
    …...
    1.1/02 …... 2.1/18
    Chuck Finley …... Ken Boyer
    Harry Hooper …... Cesar Cedeno
    Jim Kaat …... Rafael Palmiero
    Roger Maris …... Red Ruffing
    Red Faber …... Darrell Evans
    Gabby Hartnett …... Goose Gossage
    Keith Hernandez …... Monte Irvin
    Bernie Williams …... Chase Utley
    …...
    1.1/03 …... 2.1/19
    Max Carey …... Sandy Koufax
    Cupid Childs …... Eddie Murray
    Nap Rucker …... Rube Waddell
    Sammy Sosa …... Lou Whitaker
    Ernie Banks …... Bob Johnson
    Buck Ewing …... Jeff Kent
    Scott Rolen …... Reggie Smith
    Joe Sewell …... Vic Willis
    …...
    1.1/04 …... 2.1/20
    Billy Herman …... Joe Gordon
    Jorge Posada …... Ted Lyons
    Sam Thompson …... David Ortiz
    Roy White …... Larry Walker
    Dennis Eckersley …... Dick Allen
    Bobby Grich …... Sam Crawford
    Gary Sheffield …... King Kelly
    Bill Terry …... Paul Molitor
    …...
    1.1/05 …... 2.1/21
    Rocky Colavito …... Nomar Garciaparra
    George Foster …... Harry Heilmann
    Clark Griffith …... Vada Pinson
    Bret Saberhagen …... Enos Slaughter
    Bill Dahlen …... Luke Appling
    Todd Helton …... Andre Dawson
    Joe Jackson …... Vladimir Guerrero
    Ryne Sandberg …... Don Sutton
    …...
    1.1/06 …... 2.1/22
    Buddy Bell …... Joe Cronin
    Bert Campaneris …... Joe McGinnity
    John McGraw …... Curt Schilling
    Tony Oliva …... Luis Tiant Jr
    Willie Davis …... w1-1/29
    Tony Phillips …...
    Jim Rice …...
    Hippo Vaughn …...
    …...
    1.1/07 …... 2.1/23
    Brian Giles …... w1-1/30
    Tony Lazzeri …...
    Vern Stephens …...
    Darryl Strawberry …...
    Fred Clarke …... Roberto Alomar
    Mickey Cochrane …... Craig Biggio
    Stan Coveleski …... Mark McGwire
    John Smoltz …... Robin Yount
    …...
    1.1/08 …... 2.1/24
    Roger Bresnahan …... w1-1/31
    Norm Cash …...
    Will Clark …...
    Eppa Rixey …...
    Jim Fregosi …... w1-1/32
    Charlie Keller …...
    Thurman Munson …...
    Dave Winfield …...
    …...
    1.1/09 …... 1.2 /01
    Tommy Bond …... Waite Hoyt
    Ned Garver …... Chet Lemon
    Luis Gonzalez …... Cal McVey
    Ken Singleton …... Ken Williams
    Joe Medwick …... Charlie Bennett
    Pee Wee Reese …... Dolph Camilli
    Ted Simmons …... Addie Joss
    George Sisler …... Ernie Lombardi
    …...
    1.1/10 …... 1.2/02
    Carlos Delgado …... Chuck Finley
    Larry Jackson …... Harry Hooper
    Joe Kelley …... Jim Kaat
    Rusty Staub …... Roger Maris
    Earl Averill …... Mike Cameron
    Jose Cruz …... John Hiller
    Bid McPhee …... Fernando Valenzuela
    Andy Pettite …... Jim Whitney
    …...
    1.1/11 …... 1.2/03
    Luis Aparicio …... Cupid Childs
    Ron Guidry …... Nap Rucker
    Harry Stovey …... Joe Sewell
    Joe Tinker …... Sammy Sosa
    Orlando Cepeda …... Billy Herman
    Tomy Mullane …... Jorge Posada
    Amos Otis …... Sam Thompson
    Carlos Zambrano …... Roy White
    …...
    1.1/12 …... 2.1/04
    Eddie Ciccotte …... Al Dark
    Mark Grace …... Ray Schalk
    Catfish Hunter …... Omar Vizquel
    Jimmy Sheckard …... Devon White
    Mordecai Brown …... Rocky Colavito
    Ron Santo …... George Foster
    Jim Sundberg …... Clark Griffith
    Deacon White …... Bret Saberhagen
    …...
    1.1/13 …... 1.2/06
    Art Fletcher …... John McGraw
    Chuck Knoblauch …... Tony Phillips
    Ed Konetchy …... Jim Rice
    Graig Nettles …... Hippo Vaughn
    Don Mattingly …... Julio Franco
    Rick Reuschel …... Stan Hack
    Frank Viola …... Red Schoendienst
    Hack Wilson …... Andy Van Slyke
    …...
    1.1/14 …... 1.2/06
    Bob Caruthers …... Brian Giles
    Bobby Doerr …... Tony Lazzeri
    Mickey Welch …... Vern Stephens
    Jack Quinn …... Darryl Strawberry
    Wally Berger …... Roger Bresnahan
    John Clarkson …... Norm Cash
    Harmon Killebrew …... Jim Fregosi
    Edd Roush …... Eppa Rixey
    …...
    1.1/15 …... 1.2/07
    Kiki Cuyler …... Ellis Burks
    Trevor Hoffman …... Bobby Mathews
    Dave Parker …... Bobo Newsom
    Bobby Veach …... David Wells
    Kenny Lofton …... Tommy Bond
    Carl Mays …... Ned Garver
    Al Rosen …... Luis Gonzalez
    Dazzy Vance …...
    …...
    1.1/16 …... 1.2/08
    Gil Hodges …... Jose Cruz
    Heinie Manush …... Carlos Delgado
    Billy Pierce …... Larry Jackson
    Willie Randolph …... Rusty Staub
    Don Drysdale …... Johnny Damon
    Jim Edmonds …... Dom DiMaggio
    Tim Hudson …... Don Newcombe
    Sherry Magee …... Robin Ventura
    …...
    1.1/17 …... 1.2/09
    Johnny Evers …... Luis Aparicio
    George Uhle …... Orlando Cepeda
    Matt Williams …... Amos Otis
    Wilbur Wood …... Carlos Zambrano
    Frank Baker …... Mark Grace
    David Cone …... Catfish Hunter
    Johnny Pesky …... Jimmy Sheckard
    Old Hoss Radbourn …... Jim Sundberg
    …...
    1.1/18 …... 1.2/10
    Jake Beckley …... Vida Blue
    Rollie Fingers …... Jim Bottomley
    John Olerud …... Freddie Lynn
    Al Oliver …... Frank Tanana
    Babe Adams …... Art Fletcher
    Albert Belle …... Chuck Knoblauch
    Heinie Groh …... Ed Konetchy
    Joe Torre …... Hack Wilson
    …...
    1.1/19 …... 1.2/11
    Nellie Fox …... Wally Berger
    Steve Garvey …... Jack Quinn
    Jack Glasscock …... Edd Roush
    Johan Santana …... Mickey Welch
    Ross Barnes …... Larry Doyle
    Jesse Burkett …... Babe Herman
    Bob Lemon …... Milt Pappas
    Jim Palmer …... Lon Warneke
    …...
    1.1/20 …... 1.2/12
    Dave Concepcion …... Trevor Hoffman
    Dennis Martinez …... Carl Mays
    Phil Rizzuto …... Dave Parker
    Eddie Rommel …... Al Rosen
    Dizzy Dean …... Gil Hodges
    Elmer Flick …... Tim Hudson
    Ralph Kiner …... Heinie Manush
    Miguel Tejada …... Billy Pierce
    …...
    1.1/21 …... 1.2/13
    Bob Elliott …... Charlie Buffinton
    Jack Fournier …... Charley Jones
    Jim McCormick …... Silver King
    Steve Rogers …... Gene Tenace
    Burleigh Grimes …... Johnny Pesky
    Sam Rice …... George Uhle
    Wally Shang …... Matt Williams
    Dave Stieb …... Wilbur Wood
    …...
    1.1/22 …... 1.2/14
    Mike Griffin …... Albert Belle
    Herb Pennock …... Rollie Fingers
    Bob Shawkey …... Heinie Groh
    George Van Haltren …... Al Oliver
    Lance Berkman …... Chief Bender
    Chuck Klein …... Dutch (E.) Leonard
    Jim O'Rourke …... Gil McDougald
    Jimmy Wynn …... Jack Morris
    …...
    1.1/23 …... 1.2/15
    Jack Clark …... Ross Barnes
    Earle Combs …... Nellie Fox
    Dan Quisenberry …... Steve Garvey
    Lee Smith …... Bob Lemon
    Ken Boyer …... Dave Concepcion
    Cesar Cedeno …... Dennis Martinez
    Rafael Palmiero …... Eddie Rommel
    Red Ruffing …... Miguel Tejada
    …...
    1.1/24 …... 1.2/16
    Sal Bando …... Mark Buehrle
    Darrell Evans …... Lave Cross
    Goose Gossage …... Noodles Hahn
    Tony Perez …... Cliff Lee
    Lou Brock …... Bob Elliott
    Monte Irvin …... Jack Fournier
    Al Spalding …... Steve Rogers
    Chase Utley …... Wally Schang
    …...
    1.1/25 …... 1.2/17
    Roy Oswalt …... Mike Griffin
    Darrell Porter …... Herb Pennock
    Bruce Sutter …... Bob Shawkey
    Willie Wilson …... George Van Haltren
    Bob Johnson …... Brett Butler
    Jeff Kent …... John Candelaria
    Reggie Smith …... Travis Jackson
    Vic Willis …... Ezra Sutton
    …...
    1.1/26 …... 1.2/18
    Frank Chance …... Jack Clark
    Jimmy Collins …... Earle Combs
    Fred McGriff …... Dan Quisenberry
    Larry Walker …... Lee Smith
    Joe Gordon …... Sal Bando
    Ted Lyons …... Lou Brock
    David Ortiz …... Tony Perez
    John M Ward …... Al Spalding
    …...
    1.1/27 …... 1.2/19
    Harry Brecheen …... Dave Lopes
    Mark Langston …... Buddy Myer
    Jimmy Ryan …... Del Pratt
    Billy Wagner …... Schoolboy Rowe
    Nomar Garciaparra …... Roy Oswalt
    Harry Heilmann …... Darrell Porter
    Vada Pinson …... Bruce Sutter
    Enos Slaughter …... Willie Wilson
    …...
    1.1/28 …... 1.2/20
    Bobby Abreu …... Frank Chance
    Tommy Bridges …... Jimmy Collins
    Pud Galvin …... Fred McGriff
    Vladimir Guerrero …... John M. Ward
    Luke Appling …... Hugh Duffy
    Andre Dawson …... Jerry Koosman
    Dwight Gooden …... Jimmy Rollins
    Don Sutton …... Dixie Walker
    …...
    1.1/29 …... 1.2/21
    Bill Freehan …... Harry Brecheen
    Goose Goslin …... Mark Langston
    Orel Hershiser …... Jimmy Ryan
    Mike Tiernan …... Billy Wagner
    Rod Carew …... Bobby Abreu
    Barry Larkin …... Tommy Bridges
    Hoyt Wilhelm …... Pud Galvin
    George Wright …... Dwight Gooden
    …...
    1.1/30 …... 1.2/22
    Dave Bancroft …... Jose Canseco
    George Gore …... Gavvy Cravath
    Mickey Lolich …... Cy Seymour
    Dale Murphy …... Ross Youngs
    Kevin Appier …... l1-1/29
    Hardy Richardson …...
    Pie Traynor …...
    Bucky Walters …...
    …...
    1.1/31 …... 1.2/23
    Jason Giambi …... l1-1/30
    Tommy John …...
    Urban Shocker …...
    Early Wynn …...
    Bobby Bonds …... Mel Harder
    Pete Browning …... Toby Harrah
    Dolf Luque …... Tommy Leach
    Joe Start …... Lip Pike
    …...
    1.1/32 …... 1.2/24
    Ron Cey …... l1-1/31
    Wilbur Cooper …...
    Juan Gonzalez …...
    Zack Wheat …...
    George Davis …... l1-1/32
    Hughie Jennings …...
    Kirby Puckett …...
    Billy Williams …...
    …...
    0-2/01 …... Inducted
    Mark Belanger …... Aaron, Hank
    Charlie Buffinton …... Alexander, Pete
    Silver King …... Bagwell, Jeff
    Fred Tenney …... Bench, Johnny
    Doug DeCinces …... Berra, Yogi
    Charley Jones …... Boggs, Wade
    Bill Nicholson …... Bonds, Barrry
    Gene Tenace …... Brett, George
    …... Brouthers, Dan
    0-2/02 …... Campanella, Roy
    Jack Chesbro …... Carlton, Steve
    Tony Fernandez …... Carter, Gary
    Jason Kendall …... Clemens, Roger
    Dutch (E) Leonard …... Clemente, Roberto
    Harold Baines …... Cobb, Ty
    Chief Bender …... Collins, Eddie
    Gil Mcougald …... Delahanty, Ed
    Jack Morris …... Dickey, Bill
    …... DiMaggio, Joe
    0-2/03 …... Foxx, Jimmie
    Lave Cross …... Frisch, Frankie
    Noodles Hahn …... Gehrig, Lou
    Cliff Lee …... Gehringer, Charlie
    Doc White …... Gibson, Bob
    Mark Buehrle …... Greenberg, Hank
    Larry Gardner …... Griffey Jr, Ken
    Torii Hunter …... Grove, Lefty
    Dizzy Trout …... Henderson, Rickey
    …... Hornsby, Rogers
    0-2/04 …... Jackson, Reggie
    John Candelaria …... Johnson, Randy
    Curt Flood …... Johnson, Walter
    Allie Reynolds …... LaJoie, Nap
    Bob Welch …... Maddux, Greg
    Brett Butler …... Mantle, Mickey
    Travis Jackson …... Marichal, Juan
    Mike Smith …... Martinez, Pedro
    Ezra Sutton …... Mathews, Eddie
    …... Mathewson, Christy\
    0-2/05 …... Mays, Willie
    Rick Ferrell …... Mize, Johnny
    Gary Gaetti …... Morgan, Joe
    Sad Sam Jones …... Musial, Stan
    Schoolboy Rowe …... Nichols, Kid
    George Kell …... Ott, Mel
    Davey Lopes …... Piazza, Mike
    Buddy Myer …... Plank, Eddie
    Del Pratt …... Ripken, Jr, Cal
    …... Robinson, Frank
    0-2/06 …... Rodriguez, Alex
    Hugh Duffy …... Rodriguez, Ivan
    Jerry Koosman …... Ruth, Babe
    Jimmy Rollins …... Ryan, Nolan
    Dixie Walker …... Schmidt, Mike
    Ben Chapman …... Seaver, Tom
    Rabbit Maranville …... Simmons, Al
    Jamie Moyer …... Spahn, Warren
    Curt Simmons …... Speaker, Tris
    …... Thomas, Frank
    0-2/07 …... Wagner, Honus
    Gavvy Cravath …... Walsh, Ed
    George Mullin …... Williams, Ted
    Cy Seymour …... Yastrzemski, Carl
    Ross Youngs …... Young, Cy
    Jose Canseco …...
    Larry French …...
    Sam Leever …...
    Jack Stivetts …...
    …...
    0-2/08 …...
    Mel Harder …...
    Tommy Leach …...
    Claude Osteen …...
    Lip Pike …...
    Brian Downing …...
    Fred Dunlap …...
    Toby Harrah …...
    Rube Marquard …...
    …...
    0-2/09 …... Cut
    Waite Hoyt …... Alou, Felipe
    Chet Lemon …... Baines, Harold
    Tommy McCarthy …... Belanger, Mark
    Ken Williams …... Breitenstein, Ted
    Cal McVey …... Candiotti, Tom
    Al Orth …... Carter, Joe
    Kenny Rogers …... Chapman, Ben
    Javier Vazquez …... Chesbro, Jack
    …... DeCinces, Doug
    0-2/10 …... Dickson, Murry
    Bill Donovan …... Donovan, Bill
    Jesse Haines …... Downing, Brian
    Fernando Valenzuela …... Dunlap, Fred
    Jim Whitney …... Dykstra, Lenny
    Mike Cameron …... Fernandez, Tony
    John Hiller …... Ferrell, Rick
    Claude Passeau …... Flood, Curt
    Roger Peckinpaugh …... Franco, John
    …... French, Larry
    0-2/11 …... Gaetti, Gary
    Al Dark …... Gardner, Larry
    Orlando Hernandez …... Hafey, Chick
    Brad Radke …... Haines, Jesse
    Devon White …... Hernandez, Orlando
    Murry Dickson …... Hunter, Torii
    George Kelly …... Jones, Sad Sam
    Ray Schalk …... Judge, Joe
    Omar Vizquel …... Kell, George
    …... Kelly, George
    0-2/12 …... Kendall, Jason
    Felipe Alou …... Leever, Sam
    Fred Lindstrom …... Lindstrom, Fred
    Red Lucas …... Lucas, Red
    Red Schoendienst …... Maranville, Rabbit
    Ted Breitenstein …... Marquard, Rube
    Julio Franco …... Mazeroski, Bill
    Stan Hack …... McCarthy, Tommy
    Andy Van Slyke …... McDowell, Sam
    …... Moyer, jamie
    0-2/13 …... Mullin, George
    John Franco …... Nicholson, Bill
    Chick Hafey …... Orth, Al
    Bobo Newsom …... Osteen, Claude
    Maury Wills …... Passeau, Claude
    Ellis Burks …... Peckinpaugh, Roger
    Bobby Mathews …... Perry, Jim
    David Wells …... Powell, Jack
    Ned Williamson …... Radke, Brad
    …... Reynolds, Allie
    0-2/14 …... Rogers, Kenny
    Bill Mazeroski …... Simmons, Curt
    Mel Stottlemyre …... Smith, Mike
    Jesse Tannehill …... Stivetts, Jack
    Roy Thomas …... Stottlemyre, Mel
    Johnny Damon …... Tannehill, Jesse
    Dom DiMaggio …... Tenney, Fred
    Don Newcombe …... Thomas, Roy
    Robin Ventura …... Trout, Dizzy
    …... Vazquez, Javier
    0-2/15 …... Waner, Lloyd
    Vida Blue …... Welch, Bob
    Freddy Lynn …... White, Doc
    Jack Powell …... Williamson, Ned
    Frank Tanana …... Wills, Maury
    Jim Bottomley …...
    Joe Carter …...
    Sam McDowell …...
    Jim Perry …...
    …...
    0-2/16 …...
    Larry Doyle …...
    Babe Herman …...
    Joe Judge …...
    Lloyd Waner …...
    Tom Candiotti …...
    Lenny Dykstra …...
    Milt Pappas …...
    Lon Warneke …...
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

    Comment


    • #3

      Inducteea:
      Aaron, Hank
      Alexander, Pete
      Bagwell, Jeff
      Bench, Johnny
      Berra, Yogi
      Boggs, Wade
      Bonds, Barrry
      Brett, George
      Brouthers, Dan
      Campanella, Roy
      Carlton, Steve
      Carter, Gary
      Clemens, Roger
      Clemente, Roberto
      Cobb, Ty
      Collins, Eddie
      Delahanty, Ed
      Dickey, Bill
      DiMaggio, Joe
      Foxx, Jimmie
      Frisch, Frankie
      Gehrig, Lou
      Gehringer, Charlie
      Gibson, Bob
      Greenberg, Hank
      Griffey Jr, Ken
      Grove, Lefty
      Henderson, Rickey
      Hornsby, Rogers
      Jackson, Reggie
      Johnson, Randy
      Johnson, Walter
      LaJoie, Nap
      Maddux, Greg
      Mantle, Mickey
      Marichal, Juan
      Martinez, Pedro
      Mathews, Eddie
      Mathewson, Christy\
      Mays, Willie
      Mize, Johnny
      Morgan, Joe
      Musial, Stan
      Nichols, Kid
      Ott, Mel
      Piazza, Mike
      Plank, Eddie
      Ripken, Jr, Cal
      Robinson, Frank
      Rodriguez, Alex
      Rodriguez, Ivan
      Ruth, Babe
      Ryan, Nolan
      Schmidt, Mike
      Seaver, Tom
      Simmons, Al
      Spahn, Warren
      Speaker, Tris
      Thomas, Frank
      Wagner, Honus
      Walsh, Ed
      Williams, Ted
      Yastrzemski, Carl
      Young, Cy
      Last edited by jalbright; 05-08-2021, 12:00 PM.
      Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
      Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
      A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

      Comment


      • #4

        Eliminated
        \
        Alou, Felipe
        Baines, Harold
        Belanger, Mark
        Breitenstein, Ted
        Candiotti, Tom
        Carter, Joe
        Chapman, Ben
        Chesbro, Jack
        DeCinces, Doug
        Dickson, Murry
        Donovan, Bill
        Downing, Brian
        Dunlap, Fred
        Dykstra, Lenny
        Fernandez, Tony
        Ferrell, Rick
        Flood, Curt
        Franco, John
        French, Larry
        Gaetti, Gary
        Gardner, Larry
        Hafey, Chick
        Haines, Jesse
        Hernandez, Orlando
        Hunter, Torii
        Jones, Sad Sam
        Judge, Joe
        Kell, George
        Kelly, George
        Kendall, Jason
        Leever, Sam
        Lindstrom, Fred
        Lucas, Red
        Maranville, Rabbit
        Marquard, Rube
        Mazeroski, Bill
        McCarthy, Tommy
        McDowell, Sam
        Moyer, jamie
        Mullin, George
        Nicholson, Bill
        Orth, Al
        Osteen, Claude
        Passeau, Claude
        Peckinpaugh, Roger
        Perry, Jim
        Powell, Jack
        Radke, Brad
        Reynolds, Allie
        Rogers, Kenny
        Simmons, Curt
        Smith, Mike
        Stivetts, Jack
        Stottlemyre, Mel
        Tannehill, Jesse
        Tenney, Fred
        Thomas, Roy
        Trout, Dizzy
        Vazquez, Javier
        Waner, Lloyd
        Welch, Bob
        White, Doc
        Williamson, Ned
        Wills, Maury
        Last edited by jalbright; 05-08-2021, 12:01 PM.
        Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
        Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
        A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

        Comment


        • #5
          For once, the first group is tougher than the second

          First 1-1 group
          .....
          Bill Freehan
          Goose Goslin
          Orel Hershiser
          Mike Tiernan
          Rod Carew
          Barry Larkin
          Hoyt Wilhelm
          George Wright
          ...
          Second 1-1 group
          .......
          Dave Bancroft
          George Gore
          Mickey Lolich
          Dale Murphy
          Kevin Appier
          Hardy Richardson
          Pie Traynor
          Bucky Walters
          Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
          Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
          A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

          Comment


          • #6
            My Ballot:

            First group
            ...
            1. Carew
            2. Larkin
            3. Goslin
            4/ G Wright
            5/ Wilhelm
            6. Freehan
            7. Hershiser
            8/ Tiennan
            .....
            Second group
            ..
            1. Walters
            2. Richardson
            3. Dale Murphu
            4. Appier
            5. Bancroft
            6. Lolich
            7/ Gore
            8/ Traynor
            Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
            Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
            A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

            Comment


            • #7
              My Ballot:

              First Group:


              1. Rod Carew
              2. Barry Larkin
              3. Goose Goslin
              4. Hoyt Wilhelm
              5. Orel Hershiser
              6. Bill Freehan
              7. Mike Tiernan
              8. George Wright

              Second Group:

              1. Kevin Appier
              2. Dave Bancroft
              3. Mickey Lolich
              4. Dale Murphy
              5. Bucky Walters
              6. George Gore
              7. Hardy Richardson
              8. Pie Traynor

              Comment


              • #8
                First Group

                1. Goose Goslin
                2. Rod Carew
                3. Barry Larkin
                4. Hoyt Wilhelm

                ----HOF----
                ----Big HOF----

                5. Mike Tiernan
                6. Orel Hershiser
                7. Bill Freehan
                8. George Wright - in my HOF as pioneer/player combo



                Second Group

                1. Dave Bancroft - based on his glove
                2. Pie Traynor

                ----HOF----

                3. Dale Murphy - could be swapped with Richardson, very close, swung it in favor of the modern who I watched
                4. Hardy Richardson

                ----Big HOF----

                5. George Gore
                6. Kevin Appier - raised my rating of him upon further review
                7. Bucky Walters
                8. Mickey Lolich

                Last edited by Toledo Inquisition; 05-06-2021, 09:57 AM.

                There should be a special HOF in Heaven for those who arrived in 2020.
                Play the Who am I? game in trivia and you can make this signature line yours for 3 days (baseball signatures only!)

                Go here for a link to all player links! http://www.baseball-fever.com/forum/...player-threads

                Go here for all your 1920's/1930's OF info

                Comment


                • #9
                  First Group

                  1. Rod Carew
                  2. Goose Goslin
                  3. Barry Larkin
                  4. Hoyt Wlihelm
                  5. Bill Freehan
                  6. George Wright
                  7. Orel Hershiser
                  8. Mike Tiernan

                  Second Group

                  1. George Gore
                  2. Dave Bancroft
                  3. Dale Murphy
                  4. Kevin Appier
                  5. Hardy Richardson
                  6. Pie Traynor
                  7. Bucky Walters
                  8. Mickey Lolich

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    1st group
                    1. Goose Goslin
                    2. Rod Carew
                    3. Orel Hershsier
                    4. Hoyt Wilhelm
                    5. Barry Larkin
                    6. Mike Tiernan
                    7. Bill Freehan
                    8. George Wright

                    2nd Group
                    1. Mickey Lolich
                    2. Dale Murphy
                    3. Bucky Walters
                    4. Pie Traynor
                    5. George Gore
                    6. Dave Bancroft
                    7. Hardy Richardson
                    8. Kevin Appier

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      First Group
                      1. Rod Carew
                      2. Goose Goslin
                      3. Barry Larkin
                      4. George Wright
                      5. Orel Hershiser
                      6. Bill Freehan
                      7. Hoyt Wlihelm
                      8. Mike Tiernan

                      Second Group
                      1. Dale Murphy
                      2. Kevin Appier
                      3. Hardy Richardson
                      4. George Gore
                      5. Bucky Walters
                      6. Dave Bancroft
                      7. Pie Traynor
                      8. Mickey Lolich
                      "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
                      "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
                      "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
                      "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

                      Comment


                      • #12

                        1. Rod Carew
                        2. Barry Larkin
                        3. Goose Goslin
                        4. George Wright
                        5. Hoyt Wilhelm
                        6. Bill Freehan
                        7. Orel Hershiser
                        8. Mike Tiernan



                        1.Kevin Appier
                        2. Dave Bancroft
                        3.Mickey Lolich
                        4.Bucky Walters
                        5.Dale Murphy
                        6.Hardy Richardson
                        7. Pie Traynor
                        8.George gore
                        1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

                        1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

                        1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


                        The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
                        The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Group 1:

                          1. Rod Carew (I'm surprised he fell to this group)
                          2. Hoyt Willhelm
                          3. Goose Goslin
                          4. Barry Larkin
                          5. George Wright
                          6. Orel Hershiser
                          -------HOF Line-------
                          7. Bill Freehan
                          8. Mike Tiernan

                          Group 2:

                          1. Dale Murphy
                          2. Pie Traynor
                          3. Dave Bancroft
                          -------HOF Line-------
                          4. Hardy Richardson
                          5. Kevin Appier
                          6. Mickey Lolich
                          7. Bucky Walters
                          8. George Gore

                          Group 2 is pretty weak and 4-8 were hard to place.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            1. Rod Carew
                            .
                            .
                            2. Hoyt Wilhelm
                            3. Goose Goslin
                            4. Barry Larkin
                            .
                            .
                            5. Mike Tiernan
                            ----- HOF -----
                            6. George Wright
                            7. Orel Hershiser
                            8. Bill Freehan






                            1. Dale Murphy
                            2. Bucky Walters
                            3. Pie Traynor
                            4. Hardy Richardson
                            ----- HOF -----
                            5. George Gore
                            6. Dave Bancroft
                            7. Mickey Lolich
                            8. Kevin Appier

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              First Group

                              1. Carew
                              2. Goslin
                              3. Larkin
                              4. Wilhelm
                              5. Hershiser
                              6. Wright
                              7. Freehan
                              8. Tiernan

                              First 4 look like HOFers to me.

                              second Group

                              1. D. Murphy
                              2. Appier
                              3. Bancroft
                              4. Walters
                              5. Traynor
                              6. Lolich
                              7. Richardson
                              8. Gore

                              Very tough to differentiate among most of these guys. 4 through 8 complete tossup.
                              Last edited by BigRon; 05-06-2021, 07:14 PM.

                              Comment

                              Ad Widget

                              Collapse
                              Working...
                              X