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The Hall of Mistakes, Election #21

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  • The Hall of Mistakes, Election #21

    The Hall of Fame is never going to identify its mistakes, so it’s up to us. This is the 21st in a series of polls to set up a new wing in the Coop. I've picked up the pace a bit, electing two players for the next election, then three players for the last three elections, to get us up to 33 players.

    We want to isolate the players that don’t reach the HOF’s minimum standards, so that they will not be used as examples for arguing that a similar player deserves enshrinement. We’ll elect one mistake at a time. These are our first 22 dishonorees, by position:

    C - Rick Ferrell, Ray Schalk
    1B - George Kelly, Jim Bottomley
    2B - Red Schoendienst
    3B - Fred Lindstrom, Judy Johnson, George Kell
    SS - Travis Jackson, Joe Tinker
    LF - Chick Hafey
    CF - Lloyd Waner, Earle Combs
    RF - Tommy McCarthy, Ross Youngs
    P - Rube Marquard, Jesse Haines, Chief Bender, Herb Pennock, Jack Chesbro, Waite Hoyt, Vic Willis

    Over on the History forum they’re running polls using the MVP voting format, voting for 10 guys in rank order, with points assigned 12,9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1. Let’s use that method, but make the 2nd place vote worth 11 points. Your worst hall of fame player will be voted #1, the next worst #2, down to your 10th worst. The player with the most total points at the end of the poll (probably about a week) will hereafter be designated as a Mistake. We will follow with another thread to identify the next worst player, and so on. We’ll continue until we’ve voted out 15% of the Coop’s 213 players (32 guys; this could increase to 33 if at least four players from Black baseball are elected in 2006).

    Players classified by the HOF as Pioneers/Managers/Executives/Umpires (e.g., Candy Cummings) are not eligible for this election. However, be aware that the 17 Negro league players are included - they are fair game for labeling as Mistakes.

    We will use the Hall’s criteria in deciding player’s merit. That means you should take into account the sum total of the man’s contributions both on and off the field. For example, Tommy McCarthy is probably the worst player in the Hall stat-wise. However, he was elected as much for being an innovator, a pioneer and a winning player as he was for his production as a player.

    Or Hughie Jennings. He has one of the shortest playing careers in the Hall. However, he was also a successful manager in addition to being the central player on a team often cited as the best of the 19th century. Frank Chance has a similar profile.

    So, voters will have to decide how much weight to give non-playing accomplishments. It should be interesting, as voters will need to consider more than just stats.

    A couple threads in this forum suggest candidates for voting out. (Underlined players are still active candidates.) The “Upper/Lower Hall of Fame Vote” thread has my list of who I think are the worst 76 players in the Hall. The poll under “Veterans Committee Mistakes” has the 26 worst players being Haines, T.Jackson, Lindstrom, Chesbro, Combs, Marquard, L. Waner, R. Ferrell, Hafey, Youngs, Hooper, G.Kelly, Tinker, Bottomley, Evers, Bancroft, Schoendienst, Rizzuto, Schalk, Lazzeri, Kell, Manush, Bender, Hoyt, Beckley and Wilson. (That poll did not include McCarthy, Willis or Chance.) There is also some good discussion from last spring in the thread “Weak HOFers”. Finally, in the thread "5 Tier HOF (v. 2) - The Admirable & Borderline" from 2003, the bottom 25 were identified (alphabetically) as Bancroft, Bottomley, Bresnahan, Chance, Chesbro, Combs, Evers, Ferrell, Hafey, Haines, Hoyt, T.Jackson, G.Kelly, Lindstrom, Maranville, Marquard, Mazeroski, McCarthy, Pennock, Rizzuto, Schalk, Schoendienst, Tinker, L.Waner, and Youngs.

    With Lindstrom, Kelly, McCarthy, Marquard, Haines, Waner, T. Jackson, Ferrell, Youngs, Bender, Hafey, Pennock, Combs, Chesbro, Hoyt, Tinker, Schalk, Johnson, Bottomley, Schoendienst, Kell and Willis no longer eligible, here's my list of the next ten to vote out:

    1.Manush
    2.Hooper
    3.Bancroft
    4.Evers
    5.Mazeroski
    6.Day L
    7.Cuyler
    8.Rizzuto
    9.Hunter
    10.Lazzeri
    Si quaeris peninsulam amoenam, circumspice.

    Comprehensive Reform for the Veterans Committee -- Fixing the Hall continued.

  • #2
    1.Eppa Rixey
    2.Heinie Manush
    3.Harry Hooper
    4.Dave Bancroft
    5.Phil Rizzuto
    6.Catfish Hunter
    7.Kiki Cuyler
    8.Hugh Duffy
    9.Ernie Lombardi
    10.Rollie Fingers

    Comment


    • #3
      1. Fingers
      2. Perez, Tony
      3. Rizzuto
      4. Mazeroski
      5. Evers
      6. Bresnahan
      7. Hooper
      8. Bancroft
      9. Rixey
      10. Manush
      Buck O'Neil: The Monarch of Baseball

      Comment


      • #4
        Here is the consensus ballot from last election that we'll include:

        1.Hooper
        2.Rizzuto
        3.Bancroft
        4.Evers
        5.Manush
        6.Mazeroski
        7.Rixey
        8.Fingers
        9.Perez
        10.Bresnahan

        Hopefully, we'll get a couple more ballots. Recent voters who haven't yet claimed their right to vote in this election are StLCards2, julusnc, leecemark, and egautographs.
        Si quaeris peninsulam amoenam, circumspice.

        Comprehensive Reform for the Veterans Committee -- Fixing the Hall continued.

        Comment


        • #5
          Results, Election #21

          Condolences to Harry Hooper and Heinie Manush, who become the 23rd and 24th members of the Hall of Mistakes. Manush was a mild surprise, jumping over three players to gain election. They join Fred Lindstrom, George Kelly, Tommy McCarthy, Rube Marquard, Jesse Haines, Lloyd Waner, Travis Jackson, Rick Ferrell, Ross Youngs, Chief Bender, Chick Hafey, Herb Pennock, Earle Combs, Jack Chesbro, Waite Hoyt, Joe Tinker, Ray Schalk, Judy Johnson, Red Schoendienst, Jim Bottomley, George Kell and Vic Willis. Rizzuto and Bancroft are the front-runners for the next election.

          Here are the full results for the 21st election:
          Code:
          Pts	1st	Bal	Top 10 Players
          35	1	4	Harry Hooper
          30	1	4	Heinie Manush
          28	0	4	Phil Rizzuto
          26	0	4	Dave Bancroft
          20	0	3	Johnny Evers
          18	1	3	Eppa Rixey
          18	0	3	Bill Mazeroski
          16	1	3	Rollie Fingers
          13	0	2	Tony Perez
          8	0	2	Kiki Cuyler
          			the rest
          7	0	2	Hunter
          6	0	2	Bresnahan
          5	0	1	Day
          3	0	1	Duffy
          2	0	1	Lombardi
          1	0	1	Lazzeri
          Si quaeris peninsulam amoenam, circumspice.

          Comprehensive Reform for the Veterans Committee -- Fixing the Hall continued.

          Comment

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