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2023 Today's Game Ballot - Best Manager Candidates

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  • 2023 Today's Game Ballot - Best Manager Candidates

    The following 22 managers are the only ones eligible for the 2023 Today's Game Era ballot. Since Dusty Baker's contract expires after the World Series and there's been no news about an extension (as of yet), let's include him since he would be eligible as well if he doesn't manage in 2022.

    22 Eligible Managers + Dusty Baker
    Felipe Alou
    Dusty Baker
    Terry Collins
    Roger Craig
    Jim Fregosi
    Phil Garner
    Cito Gaston
    Fredi Gonzalez
    Mike Hargrove
    Art Howe
    Davey Johnson
    Tom Kelly
    Jim Leyland
    Charlie Manuel
    Jack McKeon
    Johnny Oates
    Lou Piniella
    Jim Riggleman
    Jeff Torborg
    Jim Tracy
    Bobby Valentine
    Eric Wedge
    Jimy Williams

    Please rank the top 10, in descending order of merit. Together, we will determine which managers most deserve to make the 2023 ballot. (I will assign 12 points for each #1 ranked manager, 9 points to each #2, 8 points to each #3 and so on down to 1 point for any #10 ranked manager.) The "winners" will be used in a larger project to assemble the 2023 Today's Game ballot. (Other threads to come.)
    "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
    "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
    "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
    "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

  • #2
    Is Baker considered old enough to qualify if he doesn't retire? I wouldn't be surprised at all if he decides to try to manage somewhere in 2022 to get to 2000 games (not that he needs it, he punched his ticket to Cooperstown).

    Comment


    • #3
      1. Baker
      2. Leyland
      3. Johnson
      4. Pinella
      5. Hargrove
      6. Alou
      7. Manuel
      8. Kelly
      9. Gaston
      10. Valentine

      After 5 it's a hodgepodge

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by jjpm74 View Post
        Is Baker considered old enough to qualify if he doesn't retire? I wouldn't be surprised at all if he decides to try to manage somewhere in 2022 to get to 2000 games (not that he needs it, he punched his ticket to Cooperstown).
        No. Only executives may still be active in baseball (if 70 or older) and qualify for election. Managers and umpires must be retired at least six months if age 65 at retirement. For all three categories, anything other age/status requires the normal five-year wait.

        Baker is 72 years old. At whatever point he retires, he will become eligible for the first TG ballot that is compiled at least 6 months following his retirement. That is, Baker will become eligible, effectively, after sitting out one season. (Of course the TG era committee doesn't meet each year.) Here's a cheat sheet for Baker:

        Last Season Managed / First Today's Game Era Committee Eligible For
        2021 / 2023
        2022 / 2025
        2023 / 2025
        2024 / 2028
        2025 / 2028
        2026 / 2028
        2027 / 2030
        2028 / 2030
        2029 / 2033

        At no point can Baker (or any other manager or umpire) become eligible for election while still active.

        For this thread, I figured it would be more interesting to rank him than to omit him (just in case). Absent new news, he's unemployed in two weeks.
        Last edited by Chadwick; 10-24-2021, 12:04 PM.
        "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
        "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
        "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
        "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

        Comment


        • #5
          1. Davey Johnson
          2. Dusty Baker
          3. Charlie Manuel
          4. Jack McKeon
          5. Felipe Alou
          6. Mike Hargrove
          7. Tom Kelly
          8. Jim Leyland
          9. Lou Piniella
          10. Cito Gaston

          Bobby Valentine & Fredi Gonzalez are the next two up.
          Last edited by NJRob65; 10-24-2021, 03:51 PM.

          Comment


          • #6
            To me, there is Dusty Baker then a bunch of guys who do not deserve serious consideration. Johnson would be #2 and he only really has 1986 going for him. The rest can get their nice watch for years of service.

            Comment


            • #7

              1. Jim Leyland
              2. Charlie Manuel
              3. Dusty Baker
              4. Davey Johnson
              ----- Solid HOF -----
              5. Cito Gaston
              6. Lou Piniella
              7. Tom Kelly
              ----- Big HOF -----
              8. Jack McKeon
              9. Mike Hargrove
              10. Bobby Valentine

              Comment


              • #8
                1. Dusty Baker
                2. Davey Johnson
                3. Jim Leyland
                4. Tom Kelly
                5. Lou Pinella
                6. Jack Mckeon
                7. Cito Gaston
                8. Charlie Manuel
                9. Felipe Alou
                10. Terry Collins

                Comment


                • #9


                  I'll go to 15, just because I already have them done (a).

                  1. Dusty Baker
                  2. Davey Johnson
                  3. Lou Piniella
                  4. Jim Leyland
                  *******No-brainer line*******
                  5. Charlie Manuel
                  6. Cito Gaston
                  7. Tom Kelly
                  8. Jack McKeon
                  9. Felipe Alou
                  10. Roger Craig
                  11. Bobby Valentine
                  12. Mike Hargrove
                  13. Jim Fregosi
                  14. Phil Garner
                  15. Art Howe

                  Notes:

                  (a) Playing credit applied; also coaching (Piniella, Manuel as noted hitting coaches; Craig as noted pitching coach), executive credit (McKeon, Kelly), scouting (Fregosi), and pioneer/miscellaneous (Baker, Gaston, Valentine).
                  Last edited by Cougar; 11-03-2021, 05:53 AM. Reason: Edited - Bumped Dusty to #1

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    1. Dusty
                    2. Jim (Leyland)
                    3. Davey
                    4. Lou
                    – – HOF cutoff – –
                    5. Charlie
                    6. Felipe
                    7. Cito
                    8. Tom
                    9. Jack
                    10. Bobby

                    after that, who cares
                    They don’t think it be like it is, but it do.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      1. Baker
                      2. Piniella
                      3. Leyland
                      4. Gaston
                      5. Johnson
                      6. Alou
                      7. Kelly
                      8. Hargrove
                      9. Manuel
                      10. Oates

                      Johnnie B is over the line for me as are Sweet Lou and Pa Leyland. Cases can be made for Cito and Davey.

                      3 6 10 21 29 31 35 41 42 44 47

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Cougar View Post

                        (b) Dusty goes to #1 with a WS win.
                        He would easily for me as well.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Maybe it's recency bias, but even despite the Astros falling in this year's WS, I think Dusty moves ahead of Davey Johnson anyway.

                          No slight to Davey, for whom I have immense regard, but Baker has just left a tremendous mark on MLB and failing to induct him would be indefensible.

                          I've amended the above post.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            IMO Dusty Baker is not a great manager, but rather a successful one who consistently underachieved with good teams which he was blessed to inherit. That said it would be unjust to exclude him from Cooperstown everyone else with his resume is enshrined. Managers are judged (for the Hall of Fame) by winning and Baker's teams have done that to an extraordinary level. The outcome of this World Series, had it been different, would only be the cherry on top of that sundae, but Baker's punched his ticket and his election is a foregone conclusion, whatever the future holds.
                            "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
                            "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
                            "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
                            "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Cougar View Post
                              Maybe it's recency bias, but even despite the Astros falling in this year's WS, I think Dusty moves ahead of Davey Johnson anyway.

                              No slight to Davey, for whom I have immense regard, but Baker has just left a tremendous mark on MLB and failing to induct him would be indefensible.

                              I've amended the above post.
                              In the middle of this year's playoffs, I had Dusty Baker and Davey Johnson very close to each other in my managerial rankings, with only Leo Durocher between them. Dusty was first on that list. Had the Astros at least taken the WS to 7 games with a loss, my ranking would have remained the same, I would still have him first, but now that all's said and done, he drops below Durocher, but still ahead of Davey. All fine HOF candidates regardless.

                              Comment

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