2023 Today's Game Ballot - Best Manager Candidates

[Chadwick]

The following 22 managers are the only ones eligible for the 2023 Today's Game Era ballot. Since Dusty Baker's contract expires after the World Series and there's been no news about an extension (as of yet), let's include him since he would be eligible as well if he doesn't manage in 2022.

22 Eligible Managers + Dusty Baker
Felipe Alou
Dusty Baker
Terry Collins
Roger Craig
Jim Fregosi
Phil Garner
Cito Gaston
Fredi Gonzalez
Mike Hargrove
Art Howe
Davey Johnson
Tom Kelly
Jim Leyland
Charlie Manuel
Jack McKeon
Johnny Oates
Lou Piniella
Jim Riggleman
Jeff Torborg
Jim Tracy
Bobby Valentine
Eric Wedge
Jimy Williams

Please rank the top 10, in descending order of merit. Together, we will determine which managers most deserve to make the 2023 ballot. (I will assign 12 points for each #1 ranked manager, 9 points to each #2, 8 points to each #3 and so on down to 1 point for any #10 ranked manager.) The "winners" will be used in a larger project to assemble the 2023 Today's Game ballot. (Other threads to come.)

[jjpm74]

Is Baker considered old enough to qualify if he doesn't retire? I wouldn't be surprised at all if he decides to try to manage somewhere in 2022 to get to 2000 games (not that he needs it, he punched his ticket to Cooperstown).

[PVNICK]

1. Baker
2. Leyland
3. Johnson
4. Pinella
5. Hargrove
6. Alou
7. Manuel
8. Kelly
9. Gaston
10. Valentine

After 5 it's a hodgepodge

[Chadwick]

Is Baker considered old enough to qualify if he doesn't retire? I wouldn't be surprised at all if he decides to try to manage somewhere in 2022 to get to 2000 games (not that he needs it, he punched his ticket to Cooperstown).

No. Only executives may still be active in baseball (if 70 or older) and qualify for election. Managers and umpires must be retired at least six months if age 65 at retirement. For all three categories, anything other age/status requires the normal five-year wait.

Baker is 72 years old. At whatever point he retires, he will become eligible for the first TG ballot that is compiled at least 6 months following his retirement. That is, Baker will become eligible, effectively, after sitting out one season. (Of course the TG era committee doesn't meet each year.) Here's a cheat sheet for Baker:

Last Season Managed / First Today's Game Era Committee Eligible For
2021 / 2023
2022 / 2025
2023 / 2025
2024 / 2028
2025 / 2028
2026 / 2028
2027 / 2030
2028 / 2030
2029 / 2033

At no point can Baker (or any other manager or umpire) become eligible for election while still active.

For this thread, I figured it would be more interesting to rank him than to omit him (just in case). Absent new news, he's unemployed in two weeks.

[NJRob65]

1. Davey Johnson
2. Dusty Baker
3. Charlie Manuel
4. Jack McKeon
5. Felipe Alou
6. Mike Hargrove
7. Tom Kelly
8. Jim Leyland
9. Lou Piniella
10. Cito Gaston

Bobby Valentine & Fredi Gonzalez are the next two up.

[jjpm74]

To me, there is Dusty Baker then a bunch of guys who do not deserve serious consideration. Johnson would be #2 and he only really has 1986 going for him. The rest can get their nice watch for years of service.

[dgarza]

1. Jim Leyland
2. Charlie Manuel
3. Dusty Baker
4. Davey Johnson
----- Solid HOF -----
5. Cito Gaston
6. Lou Piniella
7. Tom Kelly
----- Big HOF -----
8. Jack McKeon
9. Mike Hargrove
10. Bobby Valentine

[henrich]

1. Dusty Baker
2. Davey Johnson
3. Jim Leyland
4. Tom Kelly
5. Lou Pinella
6. Jack Mckeon
7. Cito Gaston
8. Charlie Manuel
9. Felipe Alou
10. Terry Collins

[Cougar]

I'll go to 15, just because I already have them done (a).

1. Dusty Baker
2. Davey Johnson
3. Lou Piniella
4. Jim Leyland
*******No-brainer line*******
5. Charlie Manuel
6. Cito Gaston
7. Tom Kelly
8. Jack McKeon
9. Felipe Alou
10. Roger Craig
11. Bobby Valentine
12. Mike Hargrove
13. Jim Fregosi
14. Phil Garner
15. Art Howe

Notes:

(a) Playing credit applied; also coaching (Piniella, Manuel as noted hitting coaches; Craig as noted pitching coach), executive credit (McKeon, Kelly), scouting (Fregosi), and pioneer/miscellaneous (Baker, Gaston, Valentine).

[pedrosrotatorcuff]

1. Dusty
2. Jim (Leyland)
3. Davey
4. Lou
– – HOF cutoff – –
5. Charlie
6. Felipe
7. Cito
8. Tom
9. Jack
10. Bobby

after that, who cares

[Los Bravos]

1. Baker
2. Piniella
3. Leyland
4. Gaston
5. Johnson
6. Alou
7. Kelly
8. Hargrove
9. Manuel
10. Oates

Johnnie B is over the line for me as are Sweet Lou and Pa Leyland. Cases can be made for Cito and Davey.

[dgarza]

(b) Dusty goes to #1 with a WS win.

He would easily for me as well.

[Cougar]

Maybe it's recency bias, but even despite the Astros falling in this year's WS, I think Dusty moves ahead of Davey Johnson anyway.

No slight to Davey, for whom I have immense regard, but Baker has just left a tremendous mark on MLB and failing to induct him would be indefensible.

I've amended the above post.

[Chadwick]

IMO Dusty Baker is not a great manager, but rather a successful one who consistently underachieved with good teams which he was blessed to inherit. That said it would be unjust to exclude him from Cooperstown everyone else with his resume is enshrined. Managers are judged (for the Hall of Fame) by winning and Baker's teams have done that to an extraordinary level. The outcome of this World Series, had it been different, would only be the cherry on top of that sundae, but Baker's punched his ticket and his election is a foregone conclusion, whatever the future holds.

[dgarza]

Maybe it's recency bias, but even despite the Astros falling in this year's WS, I think Dusty moves ahead of Davey Johnson anyway.

No slight to Davey, for whom I have immense regard, but Baker has just left a tremendous mark on MLB and failing to induct him would be indefensible.

I've amended the above post.

In the middle of this year's playoffs, I had Dusty Baker and Davey Johnson very close to each other in my managerial rankings, with only Leo Durocher between them. Dusty was first on that list. Had the Astros at least taken the WS to 7 games with a loss, my ranking would have remained the same, I would still have him first, but now that all's said and done, he drops below Durocher, but still ahead of Davey. All fine HOF candidates regardless.