No Respect For Thirdbase

[leecemark]

No position has as few players in the Hall of Fame as thirdbase. Even with as few as there are, they haven't really got the right guys. The best player not in the Hall is a thirdbaseman. Why do you think so few 3B are in and who do you think should be. Three of my top 10 thirdbasemen are eligible, but not in. It would be four of ten if you count Molitor as a DH (which he was) and not a thirdbaseman. No other position has more than one of my top ten eligible but not in and none of my top 15 eligible shortstops are not in. My list as follows:
1. Mike Schmidt - in
2. George Brett - in
3. Eddie Mathews - in
4. Wade Boggs - not eligible, but surely will be in
5. Ron Santo - the best player not in
6. Frank Baker - in
7. Brooks Robinson - in
8. Ken Boyer - not in , but should be
9. Graig Nettles - not in, but would have my vote
10. Paul Molitor - coming soon to a Hall near you
11. Stan Hack - not in, but should have been a long time ago
12. Pie Traynor - in
13. Al Rosen - not in and career probably was too short
14. Sal Bando - not in and not likely to be
15. Ron Cey - not in
16. Darrel Evans - not in
17. Jimmy Collins - in and maybe underrated by me
18. Bob Elliott - not in
19. Buddy Bell - not in
20. Chipper Jones - no longer at third,but building his case

Players not in my top 20 but in the Hall: George Kell and Freddy Lindstrom.
Players not in my top 20, but better than Kell or Lindstrom: Tommy Leach, Henie Groh, Harlond Clift, Lave Cross and Gary Gaetti. Player I wouldn't endorse but am surprised some batting average boosters haven't: Bill Madlock
There are also two Negro League 3B's in the Hall, Judy Johnson and Ray Dandrige, and possibly other Negro Leaguers better than some guys I've mentioned. I leave them (and most 19th century guys) off my lists because I haven't studied them enough to rate them with any accuracy.

[santotohof]

Molitor is in but really they put him in as a DH. I agree with you on Chipper. He has been quietly amassing a HOF career but ,like Molitor ,I don't think they'll treat him as a 3baseman.

[Cougar]

Top 10 eligible 3b not enshrined:

1. Ron Santo
2. Stan Hack
3. Ken Boyer
4. Graig Nettles
5. Darrell Evans

(These top 5 should go in today.)

6. Buddy Bell
7. Lave Cross
8. Al Rosen
9. Bob Elliott
10. Heinie Groh

Sal Bando could mix in this bottom half somewhere, as could Cey and Leach, I guess.

[Chadwick]

I tend to agree with the concensus - Boyer, Evans, Hack, Nettles and Santo should all be in a.s.a.p.

There are a number of other, very interesting cases among third basemen to which I am sympathetic, but I'm of a mind to focus on the five guys named above first: they are pretty obviously deserving in my book. It will be difficult enough to find support for Darrell Evans or Stan Hack; it would be foolish to go looking for support for Lave Cross, Bob Elliott or Tommy Leach until some of these guys are elected first.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Top 10 eligible 3b not enshrined:

1. Ron Santo
2. Stan Hack
3. Ken Boyer
4. Graig Nettles
5. Darrell Evans

(These top 5 should go in today.)

6. Buddy Bell
7. Lave Cross
8. Al Rosen
9. Bob Elliott
10. Heinie Groh

Sal Bando could mix in this bottom half somewhere, as could Cey and Leach, I guess.

I would put Al Rosen in. Rosen is the Dizzy Dean of position players; he had a short career, but he had a peak like no other; his PEAK value may well have exceeded Schmidt's. If Dizzy Dean got in the HOF with the short career he had, Rosen deserves more serious consideration than he's gotten to date.

[RuthMayBond]

No position has as few players in the Hall of Fame as thirdbase. Even with as few as there are, they haven't really got the right guys. The best player not in the Hall is a thirdbaseman. Why do you think so few 3B are in and who do you think should be. Three of my top 10 thirdbasemen are eligible, but not in. It would be four of ten if you count Molitor as a DH (which he was) and not a thirdbaseman. No other position has more than one of my top ten eligible but not in and none of my top 15 eligible shortstops are not in. My list as follows:
1. Mike Schmidt - in
2. George Brett - in
3. Eddie Mathews - in
4. Wade Boggs - not eligible, but surely will be in
5. Ron Santo - the best player not in
6. Frank Baker - in
7. Brooks Robinson - in
8. Ken Boyer - not in , but should be
9. Graig Nettles - not in, but would have my vote
10. Paul Molitor - coming soon to a Hall near you
11. Stan Hack - not in, but should have been a long time ago
12. Pie Traynor - in
13. Al Rosen - not in and career probably was too short
14. Sal Bando - not in and not likely to be
15. Ron Cey - not in
16. Darrel Evans - not in
17. Jimmy Collins - in and maybe underrated by me
18. Bob Elliott - not in
19. Buddy Bell - not in
20. Chipper Jones - no longer at third,but building his case

Rosen better than Evans?
Traynor better than Jones?

[Fuzzy Bear]

Rosen better than Evans?
Traynor better than Jones?

Rosen is better than Evans on peak value.

Traynor is better than Jones on career value, to date, but that may change.

[leecemark]

--Rosen was better than Evans, although Evans lasted enough longer that he perhaps should rank ahead. Certainly he was more valuable, although I think overrated by sabermetrics. As for Traynor and Jones, this was posted 2 years ago. Pie has gone down and Chipper up in my estimation since then and Jones is ahead.
--Actually this thread was revived 2 years to the day from its inception. Quite the concidence.

[RuthMayBond]

Rosen is better than Evans on peak value.

And John Paciorek is better than Rosen on peak

<Traynor is better than Jones on career value, to date>

Chipper is a little behind in PA & glove, but
141 OPS+ to 107?

[538280]

3Bmen not in who should be:
1.Ron Santo-no explanation necessary. Who knows why he hasn't gotten in. Only player outside who rivals him is Dick Allen.
2.Sal Bando-been over him many times, I have no idea why he doens't get more support
3.Darrell Evans-Very good player for a really long time, very good hitter and fielder. Similar to Nettles but greater bat, less glove
4.Graig Nettles-On the fence on him, great glove a pretty good bat. BA was so low though that his OBP isn't high even though he walked a lot.
5.Heinie Groh-Monster peak, best player in NL between Wagner and Hornsby.

Ken Boyer I'm shaky on. I'm not so sure if he's a HOFer. I could be convinced though.

[ElHalo]

No position has as few players in the Hall of Fame as thirdbase. Even with as few as there are, they haven't really got the right guys. The best player not in the Hall is a thirdbaseman.

I had no idea Sherry Magee was a third baseman.

In all seriousness, I do believe that there are three eligible 3Bmen who should be in (Santo, Hack, and, thanks to Chris, Groh), and that there are some questionable guys in already. However, 3B in my view is BY FAR the weakest position. There just haven't been that many guys who've been great players and also happened to play 3rd. It happens; outside of Griffey, there's been a thinness on great CF's for decades, and it just so happens that the thinness on 3Bmen has lasted a hundred and fifty years.

[leecemark]

--Hall of Fame quality thirdbasemen were certainly in short supply for the first 80 or so years of MLB. For much of that time a thirdbaseman was simply a team's second best SS. Since the 50s I'd say it has produced as many great players as any other position though. I guess the lower number of 3Bs is largely a reflection of the much higher standards being applied to modern players. Many second tier stars of the pre-WWII/integration period reside in Cooperstown. Very few non-superstars of the modern era have made it.

[KCGHOST]

I have no problem with Santo, Hack and maybe Evans. To me the rest of the guys are short of the mark for varying reasons.

[runningshoes]

Santo should have been elected in 1979.

He's way over due.

[baseballPAP]

While there are only 4 guys I'd consider "should-bes" (Santo, Boyer, Bando and John Beckwith), I would think a decent case could be made for any of these: Harlond Clift, Darrell Evans, Billy Nash, Hack, Nettles and Groh. Billy Nash is an interesting player....while not a great hitter, he was great at the things he was supposed to be in his era....great glove and fast as hell...yet I've never seen him mentioned here. Third base more than any other position (possibly along with 2B) has seen its focus shift many times. Players that were everything you could ask for when they played don't necessarily look that good these days.