Great players but not acceptable to HOF

[Appling]

Some of the greatest players to play the game are now being excluded from most voter lists:
* Joe Jackson -- great natural hitter but blacklisted for 1919 Series
* Pete Rose -- Most career hits of all time -- but "I never bet on baseball"
* Barry Bonds -- Most homeruns of all time -- but "I didn't know it was steroidsj"
* Roger Clemens -- No. 8 in career wins -- but in trouble for suspected steroids (and lying to congressional committee)

Are all four out forever?
Or will one of them someday make it to Cooperstown?

[jalbright]

I don't know whether it's most or many voter lists, but the point is well taken. You could certainly include Palmeiro and McGwire, at least in HOF terms.

[whoisonit]

Sosa as well.

[Go get em Tigers]

One more name for the list:

I guess Miguel Tejada belongs on the list too.

But isn't it really unfair to ban the top names that have been mentioned, when SO MANY other ball players used the juice? What about Pudge Rodriguez, his name was mentioned? How many juicers will enter the HOF under the radar?

[NJMetfan4life]

In one season, Jackon had more triples than strikeouts.

[Appling]

But isn't it really unfair to ban the top names that have been mentioned, when SO MANY other ball players used the juice? What about Pudge Rodriguez, his name was mentioned? How many juicers will enter the HOF under the radar?

I agree. The PED suspect list seems to be focused on players who otherwise might be first-ballot Hall of Famers. This is just a terrible period for baseball but how can we continue this cherry-picking process? Why not forgive or forget steroid use in the past but strictly enforce the rules in the future, using all possible technology to get this runaway train stopped?

I have no confidence that anyone is "clean". It seems more like the "caught" vs. the "uncaught". If Clemens had stayed retired the first time he might have entered the HOF before his honesty was seriously questioned.

[bob]

Rose and jackson have no chance, theyve been banned and nobody is going to overturn it.
I personally believe that Pete Rose is treated unfairly. Yes he broke the rules, but theres a clear difference between betting on your team to win and match fixing. You cant fix a game so that you win, not without paying huge sums of money to the opposition, which would never be kept quiet and most of his winnings would go on bribes.

Bonds and clemens still have a shot, although a slim one, especially if Mcguire's first HOF vote last year is anything to go by. If clemens retired a year ago, or just kept his damn mouth shut over the winter he probably would have got in ok, but now it seems every time something new comes up it is more bad news for him.

[willshad]

this my sound ridiculous, but I think that NOT being in the hall of fame actually made these guys MORE famous. Think about it..if Rose, and especially Joe Jackson, had not gotten into trouble they likely would have gotten voted in, then been forgotten about...Jackson would have just been lumped in with all the high average guys of his era, and Rose would have been seen as just a decent player who played forever. By not being elected, they are talked about much more than they would have been. Im not saying the same may happen with Bonds and Clemens, but its possible.

[NJMetfan4life]

Rose and jackson have no chance, theyve been banned and nobody is going to overturn it.

Banned for life. Jackson is dead, and didn't fix the series, it was Cicotte and Gandil along with Runstein who planned it(I think those are the names). Look at Joe's record and tell me he was fixin it!!! .

[willshad]

here's a question...disregarding the fixing, did Joe jackson do enough in his career to be considered a hall of famer?

[brett]

Bonds was a slam-dunk by '98.

McGwire would not have been in HOF territory if he had put up a career on par with '87-'92 probably. He hit 217 home runs in those 6 years. If he had played 15 like that he could have gotten to 540, but the injuries of '93 and '94 made that pretty unlikely. I could still put McGwire in, but his lawyer stated that some day he would be able to tell the "whole story". I'll wait for that. If he's waiting until he gets in, I won't be for him.

Sosa is borderline (by today's standards) as it is.

Rose would be in if he really wanted to do what's necessary-full and complete apology.

Palmero would not have made it.

Tejada is not there anyway.

Clemens was in in my book after '92! It was the top 7 year pitching run in decades.

The biggest question mark for me is Sheffield.

[brett]

here's a question...disregarding the fixing, did Joe jackson do enough in his career to be considered a hall of famer?

He was one of 10 20th century players with .330 batting, .400 on-base and .500 slugging with the qualifying total of 5000 at bats (or would be if he went 0-fer the rest of the way).

Ruth,
Williams,
Gehrig,
Cobb,
Musial,
Heilman,
Delehanty,
Speaker,
Hornsby and
J.J.

I believe.

[willshad]

you have pretty high hall of fame standards if you dont think Palmeiro and Sosa are hall of famers disregarding the steroids. They are 5th and 10th all time in home runs...Palmeiro also has 3000 hits, and Sosa has one of the all time great peaks. Who do you think from the steroid era SHOULD go in?

[willshad]

He was one of 10 20th century players with .330 batting, .400 on-base and .500 slugging with the qualifying total of 5000 at bats (or would be if he went 0-fer the rest of the way).

Ruth,
Williams,
Gehrig,
Cobb,
Musial,
Heilman,
Delehanty,
Speaker,
Hornsby and
J.J.

I believe.

he also only had 1772 hits..would this be the lowest total ever for a hall of famer?

[Skin & Bones]

Bonds was a slam-dunk by '98.

McGwire would not have been in HOF territory if he had put up a career on par with '87-'92 probably. He hit 217 home runs in those 6 years. If he had played 15 like that he could have gotten to 540, but the injuries of '93 and '94 made that pretty unlikely. I could still put McGwire in, but his lawyer stated that some day he would be able to tell the "whole story". I'll wait for that. If he's waiting until he gets in, I won't be for him.

Sosa is borderline (by today's standards) as it is.

Rose would be in if he really wanted to do what's necessary-full and complete apology.

Palmero would not have made it.

Tejada is not there anyway.

Clemens was in in my book after '92! It was the top 7 year pitching run in decades.

The biggest question mark for me is Sheffield.

Sheffield is an interesting case. The only evidence we have on Sheffield is that he used steroids in 2002 for injuries. He very well could be lying, but if he's not, his numbers rank him as one of the 50 best players that ever lived, IMO.