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Ranking the Hall of Fame Players - Election Four

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  • Ranking the Hall of Fame Players - Election Four

    Mays won the third spot, facing strong competition from Honus Wagner. I've added Hank Greenberg to the poll to replace Mays. With so many players to choose from at this point, it's hard to just select one to add, so if anyone has suggestions as to who should be added to the next poll, I'm all ears.

    Eligibility: In order to be eligible, a player must 1) Be in the Hall of Fame or considered to be extremely likely to be elected in the next election (i.e. Rickey Henderson); and 2) Be designated as a "player" by the Hall of Fame.

    Voting Criteria: Voting is to be based on a player’s qualifications to be in the Hall of Fame. As such, subjective elements can factor into the evaluation, and this should not simply be an exercise in ranking players based on statistics. Jackie Robinson is probably the best example of this.

    Election Format: Elections will last 5 days, with winner takes all. A tie will result in a 2 day runoff. For now the ballot will list 40 players, plus an “Other” option. If voting for “Other” please post and specify the player. Also, feel free to let me know if you feel I should expand/contract future ballots and/or add/subtract certain players from the future ballots.

    Results
    1) Babe Ruth
    2) Ty Cobb
    3) Willie Mays
    33
    Hank Aaron
    6.06%
    2
    Pete Alexander
    0.00%
    0
    Cap Anson
    0.00%
    0
    Johnny Bench
    0.00%
    0
    Yogi Berra
    0.00%
    0
    Dan Brouthers
    0.00%
    0
    Oscar Charleston
    0.00%
    0
    Roberto Clemente
    0.00%
    0
    Eddie Collins
    0.00%
    0
    Ed Delahanty
    0.00%
    0
    Joe DiMaggio
    0.00%
    0
    Jimmie Foxx
    0.00%
    0
    Lou Gehrig
    3.03%
    1
    Bob Gibson
    0.00%
    0
    Josh Gibson
    0.00%
    0
    Hank Greenberg
    0.00%
    0
    Lefty Grove
    0.00%
    0
    Rickey Henderson
    0.00%
    0
    Rogers Hornsby
    3.03%
    1
    Walter Johnson
    15.15%
    5
    Sandy Koufax
    0.00%
    0
    Napoleon Lajoie
    0.00%
    0
    Pop Lloyd
    0.00%
    0
    Mickey Mantle
    0.00%
    0
    Christy Mathewson
    3.03%
    1
    Joe Morgan
    0.00%
    0
    Stan Musial
    0.00%
    0
    Kid Nichols
    0.00%
    0
    Mel Ott
    0.00%
    0
    Satchel Paige
    0.00%
    0
    Cal Ripken Jr
    0.00%
    0
    Frank Robinson
    0.00%
    0
    Jackie Robinson
    12.12%
    4
    Mike Schmidt
    0.00%
    0
    Tom Seaver
    0.00%
    0
    Warren Sphan
    0.00%
    0
    Tris Speaker
    0.00%
    0
    Honus Wagner
    36.36%
    12
    Ted Williams
    12.12%
    4
    Cy Young
    9.09%
    3
    Other - Please Specify
    0.00%
    0

    The poll is expired.


  • #2
    Originally posted by DoubleX View Post
    I've added Hank Greenberg to the poll to replace Mays. With so many players to choose from at this point, it's hard to just select one to add, so if anyone has suggestions as to who should be added to the next poll, I'm all ears.
    You've got things covered pretty well. I think the next guy I'd add would be Ed Mathews or George Brett.
    Si quaeris peninsulam amoenam, circumspice.

    Comprehensive Reform for the Veterans Committee -- Fixing the Hall continued.

    Comment


    • #3
      Let's get a pitcher in the top 5. I nominate The Big Train, Walter Johnson.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Freakshow View Post
        You've got things covered pretty well. I think the next guy I'd add would be Ed Mathews or George Brett.
        I strongly considered both of them for this election and came really close to adding Brett. I think it's close between Mathews and Brett for who was the better player, but Brett to me seems slightly more suited for the Hall. I was strongly considering Steve Carlton as well. I'm thinking Brett will be on the next poll.

        Comment


        • #5
          From now on, I will vote for any player whose number is retired by every team.
          Hey, this is my public apology for suddenly disappearing and missing out on any projects I may have neglected.

          Comment


          • #6
            I would have put Mike King Kelly on the first ballot.

            Some categories to be considered:

            biggest drawing cards in baseball: George Wright, King Kelly, Bob Feller

            player-managers: Charlie Comiskey (4), Fred Clarke (4), Frank Chance (4), Jimmy Collins (2), Mickey Cochrane (2). I would mention Frankie Frisch but his name doesn't begin with 'C'.
            That is the number of pennants in parens, from memory. These were regular players (unlike McGraw as a manager) and famous for the team leader role (which Lajoie, Speaker, Cobb, and Rose don't need).

            I think I would add Mickey Cochrane first of these. Catchers as well as managers were valued as leaders in our grand- and great-grand-parents days. Cochrane was a popular choice for greatest all-time catcher before Johnny Bench and sabrmetrics (Yogi Berra). So was Collins a popular choice at third base.

            If brilliance and resonance are really part of the equation, don't wait long to add Frankie Frisch and his pitcher Dizzy Dean.

            --
            You can't go far wrong. A computer program could do just fine with a ballot of this size. Here is an outline of the computer program:
            - if there is no Other vote, add the first HOF player in alphabetical order
            - if there is some Other vote, add the Other vote leader, or the first of them in alphabetical order if there is a tie
            - as soon as two players get at least two Other votes, call back for some expen$ive con$ulting. (I'll get more sleep than that groundhog.)
            Last edited by Paul Wendt; 02-17-2008, 08:52 PM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Teddy BallGame.

              Comment


              • #8
                --I voted Walter Johnson mostly because I thought a pitcher was due. The vote could have just as easily gone to Cy Young though as the deadball era already has its first represenative. Others on my short list; Cap Anson the best player of the 19th century, Teddy Williams the best player of the WWII generation, Jackie Robinson for obvious reasons and Hank Aaron.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Here is one measure of 21st century interest in mlb players, the all-time number of hits for baseball-reference player pages. The top 12 are 7 players from the 1990s, 4 from the 1950s, and one from the 1920s. Can you name all 12 before looking?
                  Most Popular Player Pages at baseball-reference

                  Number 13 is lower than I would have guessed, but the highest with debut between 1955 and 1985.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    If anything I'd suggest not adding anyone and letting it dwindle to 35 or even 30 before adding another candidate. Seems like a lot votes getting spread rather thin.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by DoubleX View Post
                      With so many players to choose from at this point, it's hard to just select one to add, so if anyone has suggestions as to who should be added to the next poll, I'm all ears.
                      This'll probably be a while, but I'll tell you the third pitcher I vote for (after Johnson and Koufax) will be Dizzy Dean.
                      "Simply put, the passion, interest and tradition surrounding baseball in New York is unmatched."

                      Sean McAdam, ESPN.com

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I went with the Dutchman, again. Sooner or later my faith will be justified.

                        As a side not, I think I would have ran the pitchers and players separately.
                        Buck O'Neil: The Monarch of Baseball

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          --So would I if we were trying to rank the best players. That is not the intent of this project though. It is a more holistic approach to identify the most deserving Hall of Famers.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by KCGHOST View Post
                            I went with the Dutchman, again. Sooner or later my faith will be justified.

                            As a side not, I think I would have ran the pitchers and players separately.
                            In a normal poll based on statistics and performance, I would have, but this is based on Hall of Fame qualifications, and thus I think the two can be comingled. The point is we're assessing each player's Hall of Fame status against every other Hall of Fame player, and not just the performance.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              See if I can break out what I'd put in a top, say, 20 list...

                              1. Babe Ruth
                              2. Ty Cobb
                              3. Jackie Robinson
                              4. Hank Aaron
                              5. Walter Johnson
                              6. Joe DiMaggio
                              7. Sandy Koufax
                              8. Honus Wagner
                              9. Mickey Mantle
                              10. Lou Gehrig (hate to put four Yankees in the top ten, but it just works out that way)
                              11. Ted Williams
                              12. Cal Ripken, Jr.
                              13. Dizzy Dean
                              14. Rickey Henderson
                              15. Nolan Ryan
                              16. Roberto Clemente
                              17. Cy Young
                              18. Cap Anson
                              19. Christy Matthewson
                              20. Yogi Berra

                              There might be a name or two I missed, and it's possible the order could be shuffled a bit (Young and Anson might be too low, but I can't make up my mind on whom to move up). Note that this list bears little relation to any list of all time greatest players (Ryan isn't one of the top 25 pitchers ever, but he's absolutely top 5 in this kind of list), and a few guys here get a big bump for things that aren't necessarily related (Berra for his use of interesting idioms, Dean for his audacity, Honus for his tobacco card, DiMaggio for appearing in a Hemmingway novel and marrying Marilyn Monroe, Gehrig for his "Luckiest Man" speech, etc.).
                              "Simply put, the passion, interest and tradition surrounding baseball in New York is unmatched."

                              Sean McAdam, ESPN.com

                              Comment

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