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Welcome to the Ultimate Quest for Candidates! This thread will have the ninth poll in this project, choosing the best candidates for the Hall of Fame from the MLB stars of the 1880’s. You will be asked to vote for your top SIX (6) players. The poll will close five weeks after it opens.
I’m asking voters not to peek at the results of the voting until after they’ve cast their ballot. I would hope that voters are capable of independently assessing the candidates without worrying about whom the consensus is favoring.
The threads in this project will always be posted a few days before the poll is added. This is done in order to encourage research and discussion of the candidates. I believe (paraphrasing Socrates) that the unexamined ballot is not worth casting. This also gives you a little time to make the case for a candidate not listed who you think deserves to be on the ballot (although you should sign up as a consultant if you really want to be involved in this aspect of the project).
If someone wants to open a separate thread to focus on one of these candidates, go for it; we already see that a lot on this forum. All of these players are worthy of discussion, because the worst candidates here are on a par with the worst players in the Hall.
I expect that everyone is familiar with Baseball-Reference.com and Baseballprospectus.com. These are essential sites for researching a player’s statistical record. I’ve also inserted links to each player’s bio at the SABR Bioproject or Wikipedia.
We will be judging players by the same criteria that the Hall of Fame uses:
“voting shall be based upon the individual's record, ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character and contribution to the game.”
So everything counts, their lifetime achievements on and off the field, along with their character and other intangibles.
Below are the players we think are the top 20 candidates whose careers centered in the 1880’s. We will need to decide which two of these to drop for the poll. Basic data are shown for each:
Pos – primary position(s)
BJ – rank at his position in the New Bill James Historical Baseball Abstract (2001)
Win Shares – shown are career total and best 3 years
WARP3 – from Baseball Prospectus; shown are career total and best 3 years
Other – Many thanks to Paul Wendt for his thoughts and suggestions.
Some other things to be aware of:
1) Bill James’ rankings emphasize players’ peak years; this results in long steady careers being rated lower than what may seem right.
2) Win shares are “raw”, straight from the book. I have made no adjustments for season length, league quality, missed seasons or anything.
3) Due to Bill James timeline, player’s rank at his position is lower than it ought to be IMO. I would increase their standing by about 55%. For example, a timeline-free George Gore would be ranked about #18 in CF rather than #40; Charlie Bennett would be the #22 catcher rather than #49.
4) You are free to credit players with minor league or foreign league play. I have not systematically attempted this.
I’m asking voters not to peek at the results of the voting until after they’ve cast their ballot. I would hope that voters are capable of independently assessing the candidates without worrying about whom the consensus is favoring.
The threads in this project will always be posted a few days before the poll is added. This is done in order to encourage research and discussion of the candidates. I believe (paraphrasing Socrates) that the unexamined ballot is not worth casting. This also gives you a little time to make the case for a candidate not listed who you think deserves to be on the ballot (although you should sign up as a consultant if you really want to be involved in this aspect of the project).
If someone wants to open a separate thread to focus on one of these candidates, go for it; we already see that a lot on this forum. All of these players are worthy of discussion, because the worst candidates here are on a par with the worst players in the Hall.
I expect that everyone is familiar with Baseball-Reference.com and Baseballprospectus.com. These are essential sites for researching a player’s statistical record. I’ve also inserted links to each player’s bio at the SABR Bioproject or Wikipedia.
We will be judging players by the same criteria that the Hall of Fame uses:
“voting shall be based upon the individual's record, ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character and contribution to the game.”
So everything counts, their lifetime achievements on and off the field, along with their character and other intangibles.
Below are the players we think are the top 20 candidates whose careers centered in the 1880’s. We will need to decide which two of these to drop for the poll. Basic data are shown for each:
Code:
Pos BJ Player Name Win Shares WARP3 1 --- [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Buffinton"]Charlie Buffinton[/URL] (283: 62-44-33) (65.9: 17.2-12.6-11.8) 1 #88 [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Caruthers"]Bob Caruthers[/URL] (337: 57-54-51) (73.6: 13.6-13.4-11.5) 1/3 --- [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Foutz"]Dave Foutz[/URL] (292: 62-43-37) (51.8: 12.7-7.6-7.4) 1 --- [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_King_%28baseball%29"]Silver King[/URL] (263: 71-44-44) (63.3: 19.3-15.7-9.2) 1 --- [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_McCormick"]Jim McCormick[/URL] (334: 54-53-42) (56.8: 11.4-8.4-7.9) 1 #82 [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Mullane"]Tony Mullane[/URL] (399: 58-55-46) (57.4: 8.9-7.2-7.1) 1 --- [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Whitney"]Jim Whitney[/URL] (275: 57-42-40) (64.6: 14.1-12.0-10.5) 2 #49 [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Bennett"]Charlie Bennett[/URL] (157: 19-18-15) (85.9: 11.1-10.8-10.6) 8/7 #38 [URL="http://bioproj.sabr.org/bioproj.cfm?a=v&v=l&bid=29&pid=1712"]Pete Browning[/URL] (225: 30-28-23) (74.2: 10.4-10.4-8.3) 7 #93 [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abner_Dalrymple"]Abner Dalrymple[/URL] (150: 25-23-17) (65.2: 10.1-9.0-8.5) 4 #89 [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Dunlap"]Fred Dunlap[/URL] (165: 38-17-17) (79.1: 11.0-10.8-10.0) 6 #43 [URL="http://bioproj.sabr.org/bioproj.cfm?a=v&v=l&bid=246&pid=5174"]Jack Glasscock[/URL] (261: 27-25-22) (120.3: 11.6-11.6-11.0) 8 #40 [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Gore"]George Gore[/URL] (250: 30-26-24) (95.9: 11.5-10.1-10.1) 8 #53 [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Hines"]Paul Hines[/URL] (249: 28-22-19) (119.0: 12.7-11.5-9.9) 7 #67 [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charley_Jones"]Charley Jones[/URL] (161: 27-24-21) (68.0: 11.3-10.2-8.7) 5 #54 [URL="http://bioproj.sabr.org/bioproj.cfm?a=v&v=l&bid=842&pid=7996"]Arlie Latham[/URL] (221: 25-24-23) (55.2: 11.0-7.1-6.9) 7 #48 [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tip_O%27Neill_%28baseball%29"]Tip O'Neill[/URL] (213: 36-28-27) (43.9: 10.1-8.2-7.1) 4/7 #39 [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardy_Richardson"]Hardy Richardson[/URL] (230: 32-25-23) (98.3: 11.4-9.5-8.9) 7/3 #39 [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Stovey"]Harry Stovey[/URL] (265: 28-28-26) (86.5: 10.1-9.3-9.0) 5/6 #45 [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ned_Williamson"]Ned Williamson[/URL] (173: 21-20-19) (70.1: 10.6-9.5-9.3)
BJ – rank at his position in the New Bill James Historical Baseball Abstract (2001)
Win Shares – shown are career total and best 3 years
WARP3 – from Baseball Prospectus; shown are career total and best 3 years
Other – Many thanks to Paul Wendt for his thoughts and suggestions.
Some other things to be aware of:
1) Bill James’ rankings emphasize players’ peak years; this results in long steady careers being rated lower than what may seem right.
2) Win shares are “raw”, straight from the book. I have made no adjustments for season length, league quality, missed seasons or anything.
3) Due to Bill James timeline, player’s rank at his position is lower than it ought to be IMO. I would increase their standing by about 55%. For example, a timeline-free George Gore would be ranked about #18 in CF rather than #40; Charlie Bennett would be the #22 catcher rather than #49.
4) You are free to credit players with minor league or foreign league play. I have not systematically attempted this.
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