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Welcome to The Ultimate Quest for Candidates – Round 2. This thread will have the second poll in the second round, combining the leading players from the polls for the 1930’s and the 1940’s. Refer to the earlier threads for discussion and links to biographies.
There will be 15 players on the ballot. You will be asked to vote for 5 (FIVE) players. These 12 players automatically advanced to this round by their top finishes in the Round 1 polls:
83% Wes Ferrell
83% Stan Hack
79% Joe Gordon
79% Wally Berger
72% Vern Stephens
65% Tommy Bridges
65% Bob Johnson
59% Bucky Walters
52% Bob Elliott
45% Charlie Keller
45% Mickey Vernon
39% Buddy Myer
We need to decide who will get the other three spots on the ballot. There are nine runners-up who are under consideration:
38% Dom DiMaggio
36% Dick Bartell
36% Lefty O'Doul
31% Johnny Pesky
31% Cecil Travis
31% Lon Warneke
27% Babe Herman
24% Dolph Camilli
24% Johnny Sain
My personal picks are probably Pesky, Bartell and O’Doul with his extra contributions. Your input on this issue is strongly requested as we look to develop a consensus.
Below are the players we voted as the top 21 HOF candidates whose careers centered in the 1930’s and 1940’s.
Pos – primary position(s)
BJ – rank at his position in the New Bill James Historical Baseball Abstract (2001)
Win Shares – shown are career total and best 3 years
WARP3 – from Baseball Prospectus; shown are career total and best 3 years
Other – O’Doul was instrumental in the development of baseball in Japan. He is still an icon in San Francisco, where he played and managed for many years. - Sain is probably the most respected pitching coach of his era.
Some other things to be aware of:
1) Bill James’ rankings emphasize players’ peak years; this results in long steady careers being rated lower than what may seem right.
2) Win shares during WW2 play are discounted: 3% for 1942, 6% for 1943, 9% for 1944, and 12% for 1945. YMMV. Camilli, Johnson, Hack, Stephens, and Walters lost both career and peak WS; Elliott has a small career deduction. Players are also conservatively credited for missed play due to military service. Bartell, Bridges, DiMaggio, Gordon, Keller, Pesky, Sain, Travis, and Vernon have additional WARP and WS for time lost 1942-45.
That leaves 15 players that dropped out of consideration after Round 1: Ben Chapman, Harlond Clift, Paul Derringer, Lonny Frey, Augie Galan, Mel Harder, Tommy Henrich, Joe Kuhel, Dutch Leonard, Red Lucas, Bobo Newsom, Charlier Root, Hal Trosky, Dizzy Trout and Virgil Trucks. Each of these candidates drew less than 19% support.
There will be 15 players on the ballot. You will be asked to vote for 5 (FIVE) players. These 12 players automatically advanced to this round by their top finishes in the Round 1 polls:
83% Wes Ferrell
83% Stan Hack
79% Joe Gordon
79% Wally Berger
72% Vern Stephens
65% Tommy Bridges
65% Bob Johnson
59% Bucky Walters
52% Bob Elliott
45% Charlie Keller
45% Mickey Vernon
39% Buddy Myer
We need to decide who will get the other three spots on the ballot. There are nine runners-up who are under consideration:
38% Dom DiMaggio
36% Dick Bartell
36% Lefty O'Doul
31% Johnny Pesky
31% Cecil Travis
31% Lon Warneke
27% Babe Herman
24% Dolph Camilli
24% Johnny Sain
My personal picks are probably Pesky, Bartell and O’Doul with his extra contributions. Your input on this issue is strongly requested as we look to develop a consensus.
Below are the players we voted as the top 21 HOF candidates whose careers centered in the 1930’s and 1940’s.
Code:
Pos BJ Player Name Win Shares WARP3 8 #13 Wally Berger (241: 36-33-31) (78.6: 11.7-11.2-10.4) 1 #77 Tommy Bridges (241: 26-22-20) (88.1: 9.2-7.6-7.5) 5 #18 Bob Elliott (280: 29-27-27) (96.7: 12.1-9.6-9.3) 1 #40 Wes Ferrell (233: 35-32-28) (83.0: 13.6-11.1-10.4) 4 #16 Joe Gordon (286: 30-26-26) (102.5: 11.7-10.5-10.2) 5 #9 Stan Hack (309: 33-30-30) (105.0: 10.7-10.6-10.3) 7 #31 Bob Johnson (280: 29-28-25) (92.3: 9.6-9.4-8.5) 7 #17 Charlie Keller (260: 34-33-32) (82.6: 11.5-10.3-10.0) 4 #24 Buddy Myer (258: 33-24-23) (76.4: 10.4-10.0-6.3) 6 #22 Vern Stephens(257: 32-31-25) (82.9: 9.6-9.5-8.8) 3 #23 Mickey Vernon (335: 33-29-24) (88.8: 9.5-9.2-7.9) 1 #69 Bucky Walters (252: 38-32-29) (88.3: 13.3-9.4-8.8) 6 #37 Dick Bartell (266: 28-24-21) (113.3: 10.8-10.4-9.8) x 3 #29 Dolph Camilli (222: 29-28-27) (74.8: 10.7-9.9-9.4) x 8 #24 Dom DiMaggio(291: 27-26-26) (96.1: 9.6-9.1-8.9) x 9 #50 Babe Herman (232: 32-26-26) (64.8: 11.0-8.5-6.9) x 7 #52 Lefty O'Doul (144: 33-31-22) (43.4: 11.5-11.0-6.4) x 6 #20 Johnny Pesky (264: 34-27-27) (83.3: 11.5-10.5-9.3) x 1 --- Johnny Sain (200: 28-26-24) (75.4: 12.0-10.7-9.0) x 6 #29 Cecil Travis (244: 34-22-22) (91.1: 12.3-8.6-8.5) x 1 #44 Lon Warneke (220: 31-29-26) (71.9: 10.4-9.4-8.5) x
BJ – rank at his position in the New Bill James Historical Baseball Abstract (2001)
Win Shares – shown are career total and best 3 years
WARP3 – from Baseball Prospectus; shown are career total and best 3 years
Other – O’Doul was instrumental in the development of baseball in Japan. He is still an icon in San Francisco, where he played and managed for many years. - Sain is probably the most respected pitching coach of his era.
Some other things to be aware of:
1) Bill James’ rankings emphasize players’ peak years; this results in long steady careers being rated lower than what may seem right.
2) Win shares during WW2 play are discounted: 3% for 1942, 6% for 1943, 9% for 1944, and 12% for 1945. YMMV. Camilli, Johnson, Hack, Stephens, and Walters lost both career and peak WS; Elliott has a small career deduction. Players are also conservatively credited for missed play due to military service. Bartell, Bridges, DiMaggio, Gordon, Keller, Pesky, Sain, Travis, and Vernon have additional WARP and WS for time lost 1942-45.
That leaves 15 players that dropped out of consideration after Round 1: Ben Chapman, Harlond Clift, Paul Derringer, Lonny Frey, Augie Galan, Mel Harder, Tommy Henrich, Joe Kuhel, Dutch Leonard, Red Lucas, Bobo Newsom, Charlier Root, Hal Trosky, Dizzy Trout and Virgil Trucks. Each of these candidates drew less than 19% support.
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