Babe Adams

[Cowtipper]

Over 19 years in the big leagues, Babe Adams posted a 194-140 record with a 2.76 ERA and 206 complete games. A control specialist, Adams had the best WHIP five times (1911, 1914, 1919-1921) and from 1919 to 1922 he had the best BB/9IP ratio in the entire league and not only that, he had the best K to BB ratio as well in that span. In 1920 he led the league in shutouts and in 1921 he led the league in winning percentage.

A five time 15 game winner and a two time 20 game winner, Adams' career ERA was well below the league's average ERA - nearly half a point below, in fact.

For a pitcher, he wasn't a slouch at the plate either. He finished his career with three home runs, 75 RBI and a .212 batting average. In 1922, he posted a solid .286 batting average in 56 at-bats.

Six times he finished in the top ten in ERA and five times in wins, and his 2.76 ERA is 87th all time. His 1.092 WHIP is 14th and his 1.29 BB/IP is 18th. Every pitcher (who has a ten year career or better) with a career WHIP of 1.092 or better - besides Adams, Pedro Martinez and Smoky Joe Wood - is in the Hall of Fame. Martinez will be in the Hall of Fame after he retires.

A postseason stud, in four World Series appearances he racked up three wins and put together a fine 1.29 ERA.

His most similar comparison is another Hall of Famer, Jack Chesbro, and Stan Coveleski is also similar to Adams.

According to the Baseball-Reference Bullpen, he is often ranked the top pitcher in Pirates history, and he holds the record for wins by a righthanded Pirate.

From 1937 to 1955 he received votes for the Hall of Fame, with his vote total as high as 24.

So, should Adams be in the Hall of Fame?

[Bothrops Atrox]

I have Adams ranked #91 all-time. Not quite HOF level, but not too far off either.

[Freakshow]

In the Ultimate Quest voting, Adams finished well back from the leaders, tied for 7th among the 1910's candidates with Hippo Vaughn.

Sherry Magee 85.7%
Heinie Groh 82.1%
Larry Doyle 75.0%
Bobby Veach 71.4%
Gavy Cravath 60.7%
George J Burns 57.1%
Babe Adams 35.7%
Hippo Vaughn 35.7%

Looking at who ranks ahead of him, it's clear to me that Babe Adams falls a bit short of the hall of fame circle.

[Paul Wendt]

Because of his inconsistent role, Babe Adams worked only 3000 mlb innings. If he simply burnt out or developed a sore arm (no good, relevant story about his roles), then the case for Adams rather than his second-time-around teammate Wilbur Cooper is the case for electing very good careers withs legendary World Series performances, a la Stan Coveleski and Chief Bender.

Adams came along near the end of the Pirates dynasty and barely made it the new glory years with one inning in the 1925 World Series (but outlasting Cooper in that). And he wasn't always around in between, to stimulate memories and retellings of 1909.

[Paul Wendt]

Babe the deuce

No, but . . .
unlike most of these candy-dates there is enough in the record, both present and missing, that the answer must be
Yes, if there is a good, relevant story behind the odd shape of his career.

Did he lose his job on hasty judgment when Fred Clarke left the bench? --after the 1915 seasons. There were other changes such as Max Carey returning to centerfield, a good judgment.
What did he do?
--eg, any pitching for the US Army?

In the New BJHBA, Bill James says among "thirty facts about Babe Adams":
16. Had arm trouble for three years (as did Marquard) and dropped out of the major leagues in 1916.
17. Arm came back, winter of 1916-1917.
18. Pitched brilliantly in the minors, 1917-1918. [Tell me more!]
19. Got back to the majors during war-time player shortages, late 1918.

Relying on James, I infer that that arm trouble covered his mediocre 1914-15 full seasons in the majors plus 1916.

whoa!
sportswriter in the 1930s, WWII correspondent in the Pacific, war correspondent in Korea "past 70" (born 1882)

For now he has my vote for the Hall of the Very Interesting.

[Cowtipper]

Adams was the first pitcher to win three games in a seven-game World Series.

Phil Hughes made waves with his incredible control this year, but in 263 innings in 1920, Adams walked only 18 batters. That's amazing. He had only 430 walks for his career.

[willshad]

He is one of those old time players who had a great, not quite HOF career, but who for sure would have been a HOFer if he had started his full time career at a more traditional age..this seems to have happened quite often a long time ago but not really anymore. Adams also lost basically all of his age 34, 35 and 36 seasons (-1.0 WAR in all three years combined), making his accomplishments even more impressive.

[Bothrops Atrox]

I have Adams ranked #91 all-time. Not quite HOF level, but not too far off either.

Since this post (and vote) eight years ago, I have moved him up to #78. #73/#74 is my current HOF cutoff point. So if I could vote again, I would vote "maybe."

[Toledo Inquisition]

Since this post (and vote) eight years ago, I have moved him up to #78. #73/#74 is my current HOF cutoff point. So if I could vote again, I would vote "maybe."

Curious - what changed? Different methodology? Different LQ changes? Change to career vs. peak evaluation?

[Bothrops Atrox]

Curious - what changed? Different methodology? Different LQ changes? Change to career vs. peak evaluation?

In 7 years? Well, 1. WAR came out and is very favorable to Adams. 2. I did shift focus more from a big career-value guy to a more career/peak guy. 3. I read up on him more since then.

[Herr28]

In 7 years? Well, 1. WAR came out and is very favorable to Adams. 2. I did shift focus more from a big career-value guy to a more career/peak guy. 3. I read up on him more since then.

I started paying more attention to him since I drive past a sign on I-35 up by the Missouri/Iowa border that says it was his hometown or something. I had no idea his name was Charles Adams, and wouldn't have put two-and-two together on it if they didn't also include the "Babe" between Charles and Adams on the sign.

[Cougar]

He is definitely a borderline type guy, who wouldn't be horribly out of place in the HOF, but is also far from an injustice being excluded.

With my #BigHall bias, I'd probably include him, but I wouldn't go to the mattresses over it by any stretch.

[Bothrops Atrox]

He is definitely a borderline type guy, who wouldn't be horribly out of place in the HOF, but is also far from an injustice being excluded.

With my #BigHall bias, I'd probably include him, but I wouldn't go to the mattresses over it by any stretch.

I am surprised he don't have him in your big Hall. If my Hall was as big as yours...Id have him in with room to spare.

[Cougar]

I don't? Well, I haven't updated it in a while.

[Bothrops Atrox]

I don't? Well, I haven't updated it in a while.

Well, I should have said I am surprised that you still had to debate him. I didn't look to see if you had him or not.