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Negro League HOF voting this weekend!!!

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  • OOSL
    replied
    Originally posted by cuwalker
    How can you defend Effa and not Buck O'Neil. I think you can take away the fact that Buck is such a good story teller and he still deserves enshrinement. I think the woman only got in because her biographer was on the panel.

    I'm starting a blog that is going to explore this issue further please provide me with your input.

    http://buckinthehall.blogspot.com/

    This is really pretty simple.

    If you go on playing ability. Buck is not a Hall of Famer.

    If you want to put him in as a "builder" or contributor, considering his play, scouting, coaching, and role as the Negro League's Goodwill Ambassador, I'm all for it.

    If it's play, I've got 4 or 5 guys who need to go in first.

    Leave a comment:


  • cuwalker
    replied
    who would have been

    Who on this site would have been upset if Buck O'Neil didn't make it in? Any person that thinks that is a fool. O'Neil is part of the reason that these players were being recognized in the first place.

    I wonder if Manley would have been voted in, if her biographer wasn't on the panel.

    Leave a comment:


  • abacab
    replied
    Originally posted by efin98
    I give up. No matter what the Hall of Fame does they will be insulted, bashed, and bedevilled.

    Damned if they do. Damned if they don't
    Bingo! If they had elected O'Neill and/or Minoso, this site would be awash in threads about "politics as usual" in electing popular, living candidates. But they didn't, so instead you see "How could they elect all these dead people but not a great guy like Buck?" The Hall of Fame can't please everybody and it's useless to try.

    Leave a comment:


  • efin98
    replied
    Originally posted by bigtrain
    Anyone who improves the conditions for their players should be in the hall? Do you think that every other owner treats their players like trash? Give me a break. Effa Manley didn't do anything above the ordinary as an owner (other than sleep with some of her players. She was probobly a pioneer in that department.) That doesn't warrant election to the hall. She did have to deal with civil rights issues but that doesn't warrant hall of fame election either. If that was the case every black man and woman who has ever lived in the US would be in the hall.
    I give up. No matter what the Hall of Fame does they will be insulted, bashed, and bedevilled.

    Damned if they do. Damned if they don't

    Leave a comment:


  • Captain Cold Nose
    replied
    Originally posted by bigtrain
    Anyone who improves the conditions for their players should be in the hall? Do you think that every other owner treats their players like trash? Give me a break. Effa Manley didn't do anything above the ordinary as an owner (other than sleep with some of her players. She was probobly a pioneer in that department.) That doesn't warrant election to the hall. She did have to deal with civil rights issues but that doesn't warrant hall of fame election either. If that was the case every black man and woman who has ever lived in the US would be in the hall.

    The only thing Effa Manley's selection did was open the doors for Marge Schott. Don't get me wrong it won't happen. Schott's racist comments will keep her out but you got to admit they are similar.
    Schott blew up her team's scouting department and showed a lot of disrespect toward her players, in general. If that's the type of owner Manley was, then it was indeed an egregious selection.
    We've heard quite a few negtives from very knowledgable people. Does anyone have anything positive to say as to why these "experts" would have been swayed by her case?
    I had at least heard of Gus Greenlee before Jim came onto these boards. he had the fame. Why didn't he even make the final ballot?

    Leave a comment:


  • bigtrain
    replied
    Anyone who improves the conditions for their players should be in the hall? Do you think that every other owner treats their players like trash? Give me a break. Effa Manley didn't do anything above the ordinary as an owner (other than sleep with some of her players. She was probobly a pioneer in that department.) That doesn't warrant election to the hall. She did have to deal with civil rights issues but that doesn't warrant hall of fame election either. If that was the case every black man and woman who has ever lived in the US would be in the hall.

    The only thing Effa Manley's selection did was open the doors for Marge Schott. Don't get me wrong it won't happen. Schott's racist comments will keep her out but you got to admit they are similar.

    Leave a comment:


  • cuwalker
    replied
    Horrible

    How can you defend Effa and not Buck O'Neil. I think you can take away the fact that Buck is such a good story teller and he still deserves enshrinement. I think the woman only got in because her biographer was on the panel.

    I'm starting a blog that is going to explore this issue further please provide me with your input.

    http://buckinthehall.blogspot.com/
    Last edited by cuwalker; 02-28-2006, 07:23 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dontworry
    replied
    Originally posted by DoubleX
    You think? I think that's a hard sell. Don't get me wrong, I think Minoso should be in the Hall both because he was a great player (who lost a number of prime years to the color barrier) and because he was a groundbreaker and extremely influential in the proliferation of the game to the Latin America. Nevertheless, I think Clemente was the better player.
    It was close.

    Minoso was a better hitter, had more power, and was a far, far better baserunner. I'd give Clemente an edge in the outfield because his arm was better, but Minoso was a more than decent outfielder himself.

    Leave a comment:


  • DoubleX
    replied
    Originally posted by J W
    What Minoso needs is more discussion amongst the talking heads--and specifically the point that has been mentioned here, that he should get in through the Veteran's Committee and that the Negro League Committee purposely did not vote for him for that reason.

    Then the Vet's Committee might actually pay more attention to him.
    Unfortunately the Vet's committee is a lost cause at this point. I have doubts that anyone will be put in under the current format. At least the old VC put players in, even if they were questionable selections, but it gave hope for the induction of guys like Santo, Minoso, Allen, and others. There is no such hope right now.

    Leave a comment:


  • J W
    replied
    What Minoso needs is more discussion amongst the talking heads--and specifically the point that has been mentioned here, that he should get in through the Veteran's Committee and that the Negro League Committee purposely did not vote for him for that reason.

    Then the Vet's Committee might actually pay more attention to him.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cubano100%
    replied
    Minoso can not get a break! He had split career between the Negro and the Majors because all the issues we know at the time he was playing. It seems that the Negro League Committee and the Baseball Writers who are eligible to vote for the Hall only judge him for what he accomplished in a fraction of his career and not for his entire career.
    As for the groundbreaker argument, that should not be taking into consideration. He stats are good enough to be in the Hall. I hope he is elected when he is alive.

    I hope the Veteran Committee takes into consideration his entire career and not part of it.
    Last edited by Cubano100%; 02-28-2006, 04:43 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • DoubleX
    replied
    Originally posted by Dontworry
    I agree.

    Minoso is good enough just off his major league numbers. He shouldn't even need his Negro League stats considered. He had a better career than Clemente.
    You think? I think that's a hard sell. Don't get me wrong, I think Minoso should be in the Hall both because he was a great player (who lost a number of prime years to the color barrier) and because he was a groundbreaker and extremely influential in the proliferation of the game to the Latin America. Nevertheless, I think Clemente was the better player.

    Leave a comment:


  • efin98
    replied
    It sickens me that people are still upset by the choices.

    Minnie Minoso didn't play long enough in the Negro Leagues to earn a spot through the committee. Sorry but his career was made in the Majors, not the Negro Legues.

    Buck O'Neil was a great person for the game but his contributions don't merit enshrinement as a player or coach. Being a mentor and the first black coach isn't enough for him. He needed more.

    Effa Manley deserves a spot in the Hall of Fame. Any owner who can improve things for multiple teams the way she did for the Eagles deserves a spot in the Hall of Fame.

    Leave a comment:


  • efin98
    replied
    Originally posted by julusnc
    Minnie Minoso got hosed.
    Not by this election. Every other election, yes.

    Sorry but Minoso's career was made in the majors and that's where he deserves his election from.
    Last edited by efin98; 02-28-2006, 12:40 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dontworry
    replied
    Originally posted by julusnc
    Minnie Minoso got hosed.
    I agree.

    Minoso is good enough just off his major league numbers. He shouldn't even need his Negro League stats considered. He had a better career than Clemente.

    Leave a comment:

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