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The Hall of Mistakes, Election #22

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  • The Hall of Mistakes, Election #22

    The Hall of Fame is never going to identify its mistakes, so it’s up to us. This is the 22nd in a series of polls to set up a new wing in the Coop. I've picked up the pace a bit; we'll elect two players for the next two elections, then three players for the last two elections, to get us up to 34 players.

    We want to isolate the players that don’t reach the HOF’s minimum standards, so that they will not be used as examples for arguing that a similar player deserves enshrinement. We’ll elect one mistake at a time. These are our first 24 dishonorees, by position:

    C - Rick Ferrell, Ray Schalk
    1B - George Kelly, Jim Bottomley
    2B - Red Schoendienst
    3B - Fred Lindstrom, Judy Johnson, George Kell
    SS - Travis Jackson, Joe Tinker
    LF - Chick Hafey, Heinie Manush
    CF - Lloyd Waner, Earle Combs
    RF - Tommy McCarthy, Ross Youngs, Harry Hooper
    P - Rube Marquard, Jesse Haines, Chief Bender, Herb Pennock, Jack Chesbro, Waite Hoyt, Vic Willis

    Over on the History forum they’re running polls using the MVP voting format, voting for 10 guys in rank order, with points assigned 12,9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1. Let’s use that method, but make the 2nd place vote worth 11 points. Your worst hall of fame player will be voted #1, the next worst #2, down to your 10th worst. The player with the most total points at the end of the poll (probably about a week) will hereafter be designated as a Mistake. We will follow with another thread to identify the next worst player, and so on. We’ll continue until we’ve voted out 15% of the Coop’s 225 players (34 guys).

    Players classified by the HOF as Pioneers/Managers/Executives/Umpires (e.g., Candy Cummings) are not eligible for this election. However, be aware that the 29 Negro league players are included - they are fair game for labeling as Mistakes.

    We will use the Hall’s criteria in deciding player’s merit. That means you should take into account the sum total of the man’s contributions both on and off the field. For example, Tommy McCarthy is probably the worst player in the Hall stat-wise. However, he was elected as much for being an innovator, a pioneer and a winning player as he was for his production as a player.

    Or Hughie Jennings. He has one of the shortest playing careers in the Hall. However, he was also a successful manager in addition to being the central player on a team often cited as the best of the 19th century. Frank Chance has a similar profile.

    So, voters will have to decide how much weight to give non-playing accomplishments. It should be interesting, as voters will need to consider more than just stats.

    A couple threads in this forum suggest candidates for voting out. (Underlined players are still active candidates.) The “Upper/Lower Hall of Fame Vote” thread has my list of who I think are the worst 76 players in the Hall. The poll under “Veterans Committee Mistakes” has the 26 worst players being Haines, T.Jackson, Lindstrom, Chesbro, Combs, Marquard, L. Waner, R. Ferrell, Hafey, Youngs, Hooper, G.Kelly, Tinker, Bottomley, Evers, Bancroft, Schoendienst, Rizzuto, Schalk, Lazzeri, Kell, Manush, Bender, Hoyt, Beckley and H. Wilson. (That poll did not include McCarthy, Willis or Chance.) There is also some good discussion from last spring in the thread “Weak HOFers”. Finally, in the thread "5 Tier HOF (v. 2) - The Admirable & Borderline" from 2003, the bottom 25 were identified (alphabetically) as Bancroft, Bottomley, Bresnahan, Chance, Chesbro, Combs, Evers, Ferrell, Hafey, Haines, Hoyt, T.Jackson, G.Kelly, Lindstrom, Maranville, Marquard, Mazeroski, McCarthy, Pennock, Rizzuto, Schalk, Schoendienst, Tinker, L.Waner, and Youngs.

    With Lindstrom, Kelly, McCarthy, Marquard, Haines, Waner, T. Jackson, Ferrell, Youngs, Bender, Hafey, Pennock, Combs, Chesbro, Hoyt, Tinker, Schalk, Johnson, Bottomley, Schoendienst, Kell, Willis, Hooper and Manush no longer eligible, here's my list of the next ten to vote out:

    1.Bancroft
    2.Evers
    3.Mazeroski
    4.Cooper A
    5.Day L
    6.Cuyler
    7.Rizzuto
    8.Hunter
    9.Lazzeri
    10.Wilson H
    Si quaeris peninsulam amoenam, circumspice.

    Comprehensive Reform for the Veterans Committee -- Fixing the Hall continued.

  • #2
    1. Fingers
    2. Perez, Tony
    3. Rizzuto
    4. Mazeroski
    5. Evers
    6. Bresnahan
    7. Bancroft
    8. Rixey
    9. Hunter
    10. Cuyler
    Buck O'Neil: The Monarch of Baseball

    Comment


    • #3
      Here is the consensus ballot based on the last election.

      1.Rizzuto
      2.Bancroft
      3.Evers
      4.Rixey
      5.Mazeroski
      6.Fingers
      7.Perez
      8.Cuyler
      9.Hunter
      10.Bresnahan

      We'll give this round another day. A very close race for dishonors right now; another ballot could have a big impact.
      Si quaeris peninsulam amoenam, circumspice.

      Comprehensive Reform for the Veterans Committee -- Fixing the Hall continued.

      Comment


      • #4
        Results, Election #22

        Condolences to Dave Bancroft and Johnny Evers, who become the 25th and 26th members of the Hall of Mistakes. They join Fred Lindstrom, George Kelly, Tommy McCarthy, Rube Marquard, Jesse Haines, Lloyd Waner, Travis Jackson, Rick Ferrell, Ross Youngs, Chief Bender, Chick Hafey, Herb Pennock, Earle Combs, Jack Chesbro, Waite Hoyt, Joe Tinker, Ray Schalk, Judy Johnson, Red Schoendienst, Jim Bottomley, George Kell, Vic Willis, Harry Hooper and Heinie Manush. Rizzuto and Mazeroski look like the front-runners for the next election.

        Here are the full results for the 22nd election:
        Code:
        Pts	1st	Bal	Top 10 Players
        27	1	3	Dave Bancroft
        25	0	3	Johnny Evers
        24	1	3	Phil Rizzuto
        21	0	3	Bill Mazeroski
        17	1	2	Rollie Fingers
        15	0	2	Tony Perez
        10	0	2	Eppa Rixey
        9	0	3	Kiki Cuyler
        7	0	3	Catfish Hunter
        7	0	1	Andy Cooper
        			the rest
        6	0	2	Bresnahan
        6	0	1	Day
        2	0	1	Lazzeri
        1	0	1	Wilson H
        Only three more elections 'til the finish line. Vote early, vote often!
        Si quaeris peninsulam amoenam, circumspice.

        Comprehensive Reform for the Veterans Committee -- Fixing the Hall continued.

        Comment

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